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this program is brought to you by the

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genesis communications network a world

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leader in talk radio since 1998. visit

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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things are mostly slightly partly back

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to normal here on the power cast with

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gene and chris just a couple of things

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of note first of all it looks like the

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gang of reviewers

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at itunes

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after two years

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of powercast plus the commercial free

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version of the show still don't know

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about it oh it's too many commercials

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how can they have so many commercials

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so what can you say there's not really a

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place there though if you have a problem

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with a review at itunes just

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respond to the person you know like on

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yelp you know if you review a place on

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yelp the place you review can answer you

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and sometimes when it's a thieving car

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dealer which i know of one

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about 20 minute drive from here which

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will not name if that thieving car

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dealer is criticized for being a thief

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someone in their pr department will

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respond but you can't answer back

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so that's how it goes in any case we

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can't dwell on reviews because you drive

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yourself crazy we can't send out tweets

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we got a bad review oh boy you know we

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haven't talked to you chris very much

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about your

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journey to thailand

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anything paranormal occur when you went

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there

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no not that i know of if it did i missed

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it it's a beautiful country lots of very

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very beautiful women

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beautiful

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temples and

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you know the people are just great i

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really enjoyed myself

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i was kind of a duck out of water

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and kind of the object of curiosity i

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must say but there's

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lots of tourists and lots of westerners

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and lots of motorcycles and

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vespas and scooters and stuff and it's

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it's it's amazing you know the light

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turns red

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you have to you have to realize this is

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a huge sprawling

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major

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21st century city with skyscrapers all

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over that some of the

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one of the coolest skyscrapers i've ever

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seen

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i think it's called distressed

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architecture where

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looks like the building and taking a

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shotgun blast on the side and parts of

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it were blowing away and we're talking

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about a 60 70

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story building i mean

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amazing architecture

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and you know the light turns red and

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instantly about 50 or 60 motorcycles and

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scooters are all up at the front you

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know revving their engines waiting for

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the light to turn green

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and there's girls sitting side saddle on

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the back

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of

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taxi motorcycles

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uh and as they're zipping in and out of

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traffic they're sitting there texting uh

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it is

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it's amazing you know just totally

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oblivious to

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flying through traffic on a on a little

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you know 200cc

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motorcycle

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wait a minute wait a minute stop here

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stop here they're texting

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yeah sitting side saddle sitting

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sideways on the back of a motorcycle

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okay

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well certain habits so many times i was

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just stunned

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certain habits don't change

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evidently not

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but i went to the royal palace

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and saw

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you know the wonderful temple complex

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next door and

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i went to wapo which is across the river

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the home of the

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reclining buddha which is i think the

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third or fourth largest buddha in the

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world and it's just

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if if i had a paranormal experience it

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was standing you know 40 feet below

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the sublime face the reclining buddha

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looking up just marveling

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that was really special i must say

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because so many people are just

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mesmerized and just awestruck

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at this thing

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pickpockets love to hang out there and

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there's signs everywhere watch for

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pickpockets because everybody's just

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just sitting there

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spellbound by this by this wondrous side

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and uh your i guess your easy easy

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pickpocket uh material

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[Music]

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i don't think i've ever been in that hot

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of a climb and you know it was 90

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degrees 9500 humidity

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and you know the thai people are walking

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around dry as a bone

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and i'm sweating buckets and

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and just

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you know just like sucking in steam and

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breathing out steam you go into an

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air-conditioned building you come out

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your glasses instantly you felt like an

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inch of fog on them but um all in all it

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was great it was relaxing it was the

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furthest point away from the united

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states i could get on the planet um

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during the election

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and i bet you after the election you

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wanted

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not to leave

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that's true i did not want to leave and

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you know of course

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the thai people are very curious about

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americans and

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and i think

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you know the k their king had just died

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about nine or ten days before and he he

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he was the longest ruling monarch in uh

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in the modern era i think queen

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elizabeth has that mark now but he'd

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ruled since 1946 70 years

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absolutely just worshiped and beloved by

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the population

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thailand is a very very peaceful it's

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countries in southeast asia that that

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has really

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escaped fairly unscathed um

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in the 20th century there was some

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problems um

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early in the 20th century but but you

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know just remember back to the movie the

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king and i you know with yule brenner

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you know

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playing the king

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in old siam of course that was

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thailand's original name

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but it's it's been very stable very

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prosperous for an asian city i i saw

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very very few homeless people bag people

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maybe four or five or six in my entire

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time there

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it's it's fairly clean for such a large

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city

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very very permissive i think

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in some ways

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which is unlike a lot of asian asian

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countries

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uh

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it just really was a wonderful wonderful

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experience and and

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uh you know i i really wished i could

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stay i was wearing my little black

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ribbon you know to honor the death of

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the king and you know we'd be talking

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with some ties and they oh you have the

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black ribbon i say yeah we're mourning

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you know what's interesting here is

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you read very very little

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about thailand or hear very little about

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it in this country if you check the

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mainstream media

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yeah

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down

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it appears to me that the average

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median income there is quite uh

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it's it's up there i mean it's an

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affluent place

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you know you go in there's huge shopping

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malls that go up 10 stories um wonderful

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restaurants uh theaters museums it's

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just a really

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you know upscale cosmopolitan place and

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and the city i mean it's eight million

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people and the city is just huge

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i think it dwarfs a lot of american

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cities

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their downtown area spreads for miles

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and um

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it's kind of place you know spending

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eight or nine days there just doesn't

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even do it justice and

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i wanted to get down to uh

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um to the coast uh to phuket and some

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other areas that i really wanted to go

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to but i just didn't have time i mean

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you know thailand's a

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beautiful beautiful country and and just

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bangkok alone is is worth a couple of

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weeks perhaps there'll be another

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occasion or perhaps your friend will

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have some more frequent flyer milos to

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contribute to the cause yep that would

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be nice

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it would a lot of people speak english

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there yes

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yes and if they don't um

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i had no problems communicating all i

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needed to know was a few a few phrases

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no no no no no

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you know and then they they can speak

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kind of pigeon english and

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and uh it's it's fairly easy to

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communicate there the people that need

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to speak english do speak english but uh

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and if they don't they grab somebody

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that can so

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um but i'll tell you some of the most

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beautiful women i've ever seen in the

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world are in thailand it just

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my goodness it is a um

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girl watchers paradise i must say

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i hate to sound chauvinist like that but

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i i really mean it i mean that in in all

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the best most positive in the best terms

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i just acknowledge

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human beauty i mean the thai women are

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just exquisite they really are

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we segue from thailand to the uk

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where resides our guests for this week

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tell us more well i found out about

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philip mantle back in the mid 90s

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right after the ray santilli alien

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autopsy fiasco and

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philip was the lead investigator on

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exposing the alien autopsy film and he's

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been in ufology for a long time i'm

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looking forward to uh finally speaking

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with him

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now philip mantle was on with our

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original co-host on the power cast many

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years ago well really yeah and i think a

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lot of our listeners barely remember it

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so let's get set

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and this is going to be a great ride

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with philip mantle joining gene and

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chris

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[Music]

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364
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365
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366
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367
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,800
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369
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,750
so after a little over eight years and i

370
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,000
bet he doesn't remember the experience

371
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,560
we have philip mantle welcome back to

372
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,399
the power cast

373
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,320
uh my pleasure

374
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,480
so let's kind of look into your

375
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,560
background a little bit maybe

376
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,880
cover some old ground

377
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:51,040
to get listeners up to date on

378
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:53,279
your background what you've done what

379
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:55,360
first caught your eye with regard to

380
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,240
ufos how'd you get involved

381
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,040
when i look back i always even as a

382
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:03,600
young man i i always had an interest in

383
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:06,480
the paranormal literally all things that

384
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,519
you would

385
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:09,360
put under the heading of paranormal i

386
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,120
mean i'm going to give you an example my

387
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,600
mum sadly no longer with us but she was

388
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,320
from northern ireland and she told me

389
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,399
that where they lived was very very

390
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,880
rural and um

391
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:23,440
while playing on the stream down by the

392
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,800
the farm one day but she met a fairy

393
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,199
and and you know and conversed with this

394
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,199
fairy and it was complete with pretty

395
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,199
wings and pretty clothing it was it was

396
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:35,519
a female fairy

397
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,519
and um

398
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,079
and she told me that she told my my

399
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,720
children her grandchildren that story

400
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:45,040
so whether it's you know inherited from

401
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,240
my mum's

402
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:48,240
side of the family i don't know but i

403
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,360
always did have that interest and um

404
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,360
friend of mine his grandmother used to

405
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,480
live

406
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:56,560
over the road from us literally across

407
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,480
the street and i used to attend a

408
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:00,160
spiritualist church with her when i was

409
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,880
a teenager you know and when i was at

410
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:05,120
high school we used to have um

411
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:07,519
religious instruction wasn't a church

412
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,399
school

413
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:10,720
but we had one lesson a week and it told

414
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:13,120
you what was in the bible and i'm the

415
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,160
guy

416
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:15,680
sitting at the back putting his hand up

417
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:18,160
and asking questions and nobody else did

418
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:19,759
so i always had that

419
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:22,639
kind of inquiry mind as well you know

420
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,759
quite by chance uh i read a book

421
00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:28,320
that was about astronomy really i had a

422
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,079
an interest in that as well

423
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,360
and it mentioned one chapter on ufos

424
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,440
pretty much dismissing it i have no idea

425
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,680
what the book was called it wasn't mine

426
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,040
and i thought well that's interesting

427
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,959
and i'll write a few letters and i'm

428
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:42,800
sure i'll find the answers

429
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:45,279
little did i know that here i am today

430
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:48,160
all those years later i was about 19 at

431
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,839
this time

432
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,680
um but i would still be asking those

433
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:53,360
very same questions

434
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:54,240
and

435
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:57,199
again quite by chance my my uh my aunt

436
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:59,199
lived around the corner from us and she

437
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,800
came one day with a with a local

438
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,600
newspaper and in there was a small piece

439
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,360
about um

440
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,520
a ufo group being formed in the city of

441
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,000
leeds it's not far from where i lived

442
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,640
called the yorkshire ufo society and

443
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:14,959
they were hosting their first meeting

444
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:15,679
so

445
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,400
off i went uh no idea where this place

446
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:19,839
was but i found it and of course it was

447
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:21,919
founded by uh

448
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,799
brothers that mark bertsell and then his

449
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:26,959
elder brother graham many people will

450
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,520
know graham bircell as many years later

451
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,600
he went on to successfully

452
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,919
publish and edit ufo magazine here in

453
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,200
the uk

454
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,360
sadly graham's no longer with us but

455
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,120
that's all it started once i attended

456
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,120
that first meeting there was there was

457
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,840
no turning back chris out i was hooked

458
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,960
and still am

459
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:47,440
this was back in the early to mid 80s

460
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,400
this was about 1979 1980 yes yeah okay

461
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:54,880
long time ago you know yeah so you've

462
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,760
been a

463
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:57,840
a real trooper ever since then

464
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:59,440
i i remember

465
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,799
really first

466
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,360
i didn't get involved really

467
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:05,039
deeply into uh

468
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,320
into

469
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,880
this aspect of the paranormal ufology

470
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:11,120
until the early 90s it took a lot of

471
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:12,400
getting up to speed a lot of book

472
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:14,000
reading which i had already been doing

473
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:15,919
reading books but then i really went at

474
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:17,679
it

475
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,360
whole hog as they say

476
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:20,880
but then the

477
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,600
infamous alien autopsy film

478
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,760
was broadcast i think by fox here in the

479
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,280
united states

480
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,880
and all of a sudden your name started

481
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,320
cropping up a lot and i remember

482
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,160
thinking this is an interesting guy he's

483
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,480
uh he seems a little bit like a pit bull

484
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,400
on this particular case

485
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:38,640
once you give some of our

486
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,000
newer listeners a sense of the response

487
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,400
to that particular very controversial

488
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,120
film and then sort of give us a

489
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,799
an encapsulated

490
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,640
version of of the amount of work that

491
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,640
you put in uh looking into this case and

492
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,080
i think you you were the one that really

493
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,160
uncovered really kind of broke the dam

494
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,799
wide open on that and then uh tell us

495
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,400
what you think about it yeah well well

496
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,160
back in this it goes

497
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:04,559
back to 1993

498
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,679
i was

499
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,760
the press officer and conference

500
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:09,280
organizer

501
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,080
for the british ufo research association

502
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,640
a letter arrived from a company called

503
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,919
the milling group

504
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:18,559
just asking not me personally but us as

505
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:20,960
an organization if we could assist in

506
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,320
the making of a ufo documentary

507
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,640
so i i you know replied and sent them

508
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,000
some information

509
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,720
i had a reply so i rang the chap up who

510
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:32,160
was the head of this company he was

511
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:34,799
called ray santilli and ray went on to

512
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:36,880
tell me to begin with that he just

513
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,000
wanted a general ufo documentary did we

514
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,320
have clips of film with good license and

515
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:44,160
interviews and all this

516
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,760
and i gave him what we could help him

517
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:48,000
with and then in our next telephone

518
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:50,720
conversation he came out with the well

519
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:53,840
filipino i have film of the roswell

520
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,799
crash

521
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,400
he'd call it roswell to begin with he

522
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,320
called it rosewell

523
00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:00,480
well fairly enough i wasn't expecting

524
00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:01,520
that but

525
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:04,160
if that's the case show me now i lived

526
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:05,840
in i live in the north of england ray

527
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:08,240
was in london you know over 200 miles

528
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,120
away

529
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,440
so it went like this yes i can no i

530
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:14,240
can't yes it can no account anyway we

531
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:15,679
would have been a

532
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:19,200
an event in london to house

533
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:22,000
a speaking engagement with travis walton

534
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,760
and mike rogers when the movie fire in

535
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,120
the sky came out

536
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:27,840
just by chance this man race antilles

537
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:30,880
officers were quite nearby so i i

538
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,120
invited him to attend which he did that

539
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,039
was the first time i met him and he told

540
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:37,360
me this story about him meeting this

541
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,480
cameraman out in america and and he sold

542
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,880
him the film and again i said you know

543
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,360
show it to me yes i can no i can't so in

544
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,520
the end i said you know we'll take a run

545
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,520
you know you're pulling my finger here

546
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:51,200
there's there's nothing to it it's

547
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:53,679
rubbish and i kept a number of close

548
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:56,640
colleagues informed uh behind the scenes

549
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,679
and then in early 1995

550
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:02,400
um i received a video cassette which was

551
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,360
the movie roswell made by paul davids

552
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:07,440
they were releasing it here in the uk it

553
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,919
wasn't any great announcement and i've

554
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:12,240
just been sent a copy for review and i

555
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,480
thought oh well if that santilli chap

556
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,799
still claims to have this film now i got

557
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:18,880
his business card pulled it out of the

558
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,000
folder

559
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,400
phone him up and he says well yes i do

560
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,480
feel it you don't believe me that's why

561
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,960
i can't believe you until you show me it

562
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:28,720
so he said make it make an appointment

563
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,840
with my secretary and and away we go so

564
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:33,360
i made the appointment with this

565
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,320
secretary my wife and i drove to london

566
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,880
met santilli in his office hey presto

567
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,799
there was the alien autopsy film he

568
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:43,039
showed us four different sets of items

569
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,840
over a period of a couple of months

570
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,280
start off with a piece that's called the

571
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:49,440
tent footage and then he showed us two

572
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,480
different

573
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,039
autopsy films same kind of creature but

574
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:55,679
slightly different procedures and then

575
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:58,960
some debris now at this point

576
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:01,200
essentially had no press involved no

577
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:03,200
media no tv it was it's actually going

578
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:06,000
to sell it only on video so i thought

579
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,520
well you know we've got to get this out

580
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:09,520
in the open just try and find out more

581
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:12,559
information so i just set off off the

582
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,720
cuff one day in his office will you show

583
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:16,960
it out our conference i had a conference

584
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:20,159
organized for august 1995 all set up

585
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,200
already

586
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:23,679
and he said yeah if you will help me

587
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,159
research it for it so that's how it all

588
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,720
came about and um if the story

589
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,360
eventually released to the press that's

590
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:33,360
when the tv became involved like you

591
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,720
said with fox in the usa channel 40 here

592
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,440
in england and a whole host of other

593
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:41,280
countries around the world

594
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:42,880
we've got more to come with philip

595
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:45,919
mantle telling us this great story

596
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,559
and leaving us with a cliffhanger more

597
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:50,320
to come with gene and chris you're in

598
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:02,789
thank you for listening to gcn

599
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:03,720
visit

600
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cold how would you like to never be cold

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walks shopping or if you or your spouse

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get cold feet at home get fortress if

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686
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692
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,510
hi this is james fox from chasing ufos

693
00:27:20,370 --> 00:27:17,679
you're listening to the paracast the

694
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:20,380
gold standard of paranormal radio

695
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,200
[Music]

696
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,039
they have cliffhangers everywhere these

697
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,120
days you know you have these tv series

698
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:28,799
in america and you probably see them in

699
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:30,400
the uk philip

700
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:32,799
where i don't know what you mean

701
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,840
well we have a spiritual advisor who

702
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,000
just showed up and is asking us

703
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:40,960
what do you mean by at least tv series

704
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,480
in the uk

705
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:45,520
all right well it shows you how

706
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:47,840
we are being watched and listened to

707
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:50,080
philip why don't you continue your story

708
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:52,400
yeah like i was saying quite quite by

709
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,760
accident

710
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:55,840
news about the alien autopsy film got

711
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,159
out into the media and it went

712
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,440
crazy i mean this is the days before

713
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:03,440
the internet really set got going an

714
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:06,080
email and i had a

715
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,799
big machine which was a phone and a fax

716
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,880
and and it never stopped i mean

717
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:12,720
literally i was getting phone calls from

718
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,480
around the world

719
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:16,000
and all i could do was pass them on to

720
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,440
race and tilly

721
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:19,440
so he kept his word

722
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,200
on august the 27th

723
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:25,440
1995 he came to sheffield to our

724
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,559
conference which was rampant he showed

725
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,720
the film and then a couple of days later

726
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,279
it was it was shown around the world

727
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,760
and you've never seen anything like it

728
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,080
guys you really haven't i'll give you an

729
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,000
example i mean you know the night before

730
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:42,240
the conference was due in sheffield a

731
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,799
lady from the the states from then said

732
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:46,240
can i buy a ticket i said well there

733
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,600
aren't any left she saw i'm coming

734
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:49,679
anyway and she did

735
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,440
and she turned up on

736
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,520
you know and where she came from but she

737
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,760
did she gave me her name and i just made

738
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:57,360
sure i found a seat for her when she

739
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:58,399
arrived

740
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,200
and

741
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:01,840
with film crews from all over

742
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,200
and you know

743
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,240
i expected afterwards that we'll see it

744
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:08,640
got out in the tv and the newspapers and

745
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:10,640
the magazines which it did

746
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,520
that

747
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:13,760
someone might come forward and they

748
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,880
would say

749
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,279
well my grandfather told me the story

750
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,120
about this and i think that might be him

751
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:21,279
or i'm one of the actors in it and

752
00:29:27,070 --> 00:29:24,159
that's me or it's my friend and i or i

753
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:27,080
made the props for it but nothing

754
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:30,720
absolutely nothing not a word anywhere

755
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,760
so

756
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,679
all we had to go on of course was the

757
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,039
film itself

758
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,039
you know was there anything in the film

759
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:38,960
that would give it away you know the

760
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:41,520
wrong kind of watch or the the medical

761
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,120
instruments where they get them from the

762
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:45,039
wrong day so we literally checked

763
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,080
everything

764
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:49,120
yeah curly telephone cord you know the

765
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,440
curly telephone cord i mean it didn't

766
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:53,360
come as standard you just paid a few

767
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:55,279
dollars extra and you got actually curly

768
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,240
card

769
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:58,480
but it was all there

770
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,039
so looking at the film from just from

771
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,440
that point of view there was nothing

772
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,200
that stood out

773
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:07,200
however

774
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:10,320
later on it was then the the turn of the

775
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,360
special effects experts now i was tipped

776
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:14,880
off that it might be a special effects

777
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,440
chap here in the uk so i phoned him he

778
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:18,960
said no it's not me but it might be

779
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,960
so-and-so so i'd ring the next chapter

780
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:22,399
and he said no it's not me but it might

781
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:24,399
be this fella and i just went round and

782
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:25,840
round in circles

783
00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:27,440
however there was a company in the

784
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,039
states called the truly dangerous

785
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,480
company

786
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:31,679
and

787
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,320
they literally got the film sat there

788
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:36,880
and watched it framed my frame

789
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,159
and they noticed slightly little things

790
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,399
that in their opinion

791
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:44,240
weren't right and and they were caught

792
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:47,039
this was a special effect and you know

793
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:47,919
they

794
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:52,159
printed that off sat there in front of

795
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,559
the tv did exactly the same as them

796
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,480
and when you looked where they told you

797
00:30:59,110 --> 00:30:57,840
to look they could see little things

798
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,120
that

799
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,720
i think well something's not right here

800
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:02,559
didn't prove anything but it cast the

801
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:06,880
first suspicion so what i i did

802
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,240
in public

803
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:10,320
and and and behind closed doors with ray

804
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,279
santilli and his and his colleagues i i

805
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,679
supported him i you know i patted him on

806
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:17,360
the back you know

807
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,799
but you know behind the scenes i was

808
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:22,799
paddling away like my trying to find out

809
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:25,600
what this film was and i remember

810
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:28,159
sitting in a restaurant in london with

811
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:28,960
ray

812
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:31,200
i told him straight to his face

813
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,520
uh one lunchtime that i would find out

814
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,440
the truth about this film whatever the

815
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,679
truth may be and he just smiled and

816
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,279
shoved his shoulders and said i don't

817
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:40,799
have a problem with that philip you know

818
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:41,919
and that was it

819
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:42,799
and

820
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:44,840
well you know what that's really playing

821
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,080
poker no he's not going to say oh my god

822
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,399
he's going to expose me is he you know

823
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,080
just want to mention one thing throw

824
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:54,480
this in when you mention looking at the

825
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,480
film carefully looking for things that

826
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,720
are out of whack in the movie business

827
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,799
that's called continuity

828
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:02,240
you know where they they look at every

829
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,679
element of a scene to make sure it

830
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,080
reflects the era in which the movie

831
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,159
takes place and when you go from scene

832
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,000
to scene or you shoot from one day to

833
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,240
the next you have to make sure

834
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,559
everything's in the same place i

835
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,159
understand that but everything was in

836
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,720
the same place it was just little things

837
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,600
about how the body laid on the on the

838
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:23,760
slab sure and

839
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,039
there's one instance when they're

840
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:27,679
cutting the head open for example

841
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,519
the head wobbles and you see the

842
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,600
gentleman put his hand on it to hold it

843
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:33,360
still in other words it's not attached

844
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,519
to the neck you know it's separate

845
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:37,519
there's no there's no spinal cord there

846
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,120
little things like this

847
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,360
what is curious as well

848
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,120
and it didn't make much sense at the

849
00:32:47,909 --> 00:32:45,039
time but i have a friend of mine that

850
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,919
was in the special effects business

851
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:50,080
and i said to him if you were to make

852
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:51,039
this

853
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,519
film if i was to pay you you know

854
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:55,600
friends rates mates rates how much would

855
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:56,559
it cost

856
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:58,000
and he said oh i reckon i could do it

857
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,279
for about 30 000 pounds so i said okay

858
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,919
didn't prove anything at that point and

859
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,360
we left it there

860
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:07,600
so what i used to do every now and again

861
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:10,559
you know i would rattle the tree

862
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,120
and slowly but surely

863
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:15,360
you know bits of information started to

864
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:17,840
appear started with the tent footage

865
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,159
which very few people have seen

866
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,159
i've got i got an email saying i know

867
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,720
something about this that led me to find

868
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,880
the guys who were behind that and how

869
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:28,559
the idea of the film

870
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,240
first started

871
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:32,480
eventually i'm jumping forward in time

872
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,279
now

873
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,039
a lot of years

874
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:38,080
uh chuck again contacted me and said

875
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:39,679
i've just seen an article of yours in

876
00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:41,760
ufo magazine about the alien autopsy

877
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:43,519
film didn't realize there was any

878
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,519
interesting now because this was

879
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,240
10 12 years later

880
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:50,320
well i said yeah that is so he said well

881
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,240
my friend made the dummies for it are

882
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,919
you interested

883
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,799
well

884
00:34:00,630 --> 00:33:58,960
sure damn so i met this chap i met him

885
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,640
in manchester

886
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:02,159
and he wouldn't tell me who his friend

887
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,960
was but he gave me enough information to

888
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:06,640
find out who he was

889
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:08,639
it turns out he wasn't a special effects

890
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:09,599
guy

891
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:12,800
he was a sculptor whose work at times

892
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:15,359
overlapped into film and television and

893
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:17,919
his name was john humphries

894
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:20,639
and he was the man that made

895
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:22,879
the the dummies in the alien autopsy

896
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:24,320
film

897
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,520
and

898
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:27,919
i went to bob kevia now bob's the guy

899
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:30,639
who did the tv special alien autopsy

900
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,960
factor fiction in the states he was the

901
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:34,720
producer

902
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,639
but through bob we found out a bit more

903
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,399
about this chap and he was willing to go

904
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:40,720
on the record and then all of a sudden

905
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:43,040
everything ceased because right santilli

906
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,399
and his colleagues were making a movie

907
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:48,240
about the alien autopsy and they'd

908
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:50,960
signed john humphries up to make the

909
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,359
dummies for them again so he couldn't

910
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:55,119
speak anymore

911
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,800
and and then again out of the blue

912
00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:00,640
john had given us the name jonathan had

913
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,240
given us a name and he said you really

914
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:04,720
should be speaking to spiros

915
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:07,040
that was it spit asked who what what is

916
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:09,920
spiros a friend of mine again because we

917
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:12,880
we've made a little homemade dvd

918
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:15,839
he got an email and it was from a chap

919
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:18,960
called spiros molaris in london so he

920
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:21,359
passed it on to me spoke to spiros and

921
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:23,599
as soon as i spoke to him i knew we got

922
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,839
our man he was the man the mastermind

923
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,160
behind it all he's a magician

924
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:30,240
he served his apprenticeship as a as a

925
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,880
mechanic so he's got he's an artist

926
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:34,560
and he literally

927
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,160
um was was talked to ray santilli's idea

928
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:40,320
and said i'll make a film for you

929
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,079
and guess how much it cost

930
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,599
remember i've told you about my special

931
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,960
effects friend

932
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:47,200
thirty thousand pounds eight thousand

933
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,880
pounds it wasn't a bad guess for him

934
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,000
what was it

935
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,560
and ross had all his documentary

936
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:54,320
evidence i've been to his house i've

937
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:57,520
seen his files his diaries he even did a

938
00:36:03,750 --> 00:35:59,520
storyboard you know

939
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,760
uh faxes from kodak i mean all the film

940
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,280
code on it and he's going to do even

941
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,200
more he was going to build a scene

942
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:09,440
whereby you know he could see president

943
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:10,880
truman it was going to have the face

944
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:12,720
done not the whole lot the whole nine

945
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,560
yards as you would say and i thought

946
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,640
game over you know that is it and

947
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,400
there's no no getting away from it

948
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,240
spiros is the man

949
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:22,560
behind each other just just to clarify

950
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:25,119
here so santilli says he he had some

951
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,000
original footage that was real

952
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,880
and he had some this guy come in and go

953
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,200
ahead and match that footage to expand

954
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:35,119
the amount of footage that appeared to

955
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,079
be there

956
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,240
before we have that answer let's just

957
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:40,480
pause here for a moment we have philip

958
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,520
mantle talking about the disassembling

959
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,560
of the alien autopsy film and a lot more

960
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,240
to come about that and other subjects

961
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:50,640
with gene and with chris you're in the

962
00:37:03,870 --> 00:37:03,030
you are listening to gcn

963
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964
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[Music]

1063
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:18,720
you're listening to the paracast

1064
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:21,290
the gold standard of paranormal radio

1065
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,480
[Music]

1066
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:28,079
before we get back to philip mantle i

1067
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:30,880
continue the story about the alien

1068
00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:34,079
autopsy film and exposing what went on i

1069
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,440
want to tell you about the fact that

1070
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we've got a second radio show that you

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offers a host of options commercial free

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cast which can be a continuation of the

1078
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,200
interview or

1079
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:57,119
general chit chat or something

1080
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:59,760
completely out of the blue we never know

1081
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:01,760
other content we have their video

1082
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,160
channel our friend paul kimball who was

1083
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our guest last week on the power cast

1084
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has put up episodes of his

1085
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1086
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1087
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1088
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you've got to check it out plus dot the

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1090
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1091
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subscription started 4.99 a month we

1092
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,520
have philip mantle long time

1093
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:32,079
researcher on ufos from the uk we're

1094
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,800
talking about the alien autopsy

1095
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,880
and when we stop phillip you mention

1096
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:38,319
here that

1097
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:40,240
supposedly or allegedly there was a real

1098
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:41,920
film but this

1099
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:49,990
sure

1100
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:53,040
it's totally different what happened was

1101
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:55,119
i've even spoke to the gentleman who who

1102
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:57,599
made the initial comment

1103
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,920
ray and a number of colleagues

1104
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,520
used to have a kind of brainstorming

1105
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,599
session you know to try and make money

1106
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,040
they were filmmakers spiros was a

1107
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,839
filmmaker you know he had his own crew

1108
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,760
and he did pop videos and all this kind

1109
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:11,040
of stuff

1110
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,640
and

1111
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:14,960
rick centelli was in the offices of a

1112
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:17,599
company called ak music

1113
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:19,359
they used to do a lot of

1114
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:22,240
karaoke stuff and things like that

1115
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:28,230
employees a chap called phil german

1116
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,560
and just had a book about roswell and he

1117
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:32,240
just again on off the cuff to mark he

1118
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:33,520
said

1119
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,720
wouldn't it be great if we had some

1120
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,319
roswell footage

1121
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:37,760
now

1122
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,920
the owner of ak music was keith bateman

1123
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,839
keith is a real character so he took

1124
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,680
this idea

1125
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,680
and he went and made what we now call

1126
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,839
the tent footage it lasts about eight

1127
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:51,680
minutes long

1128
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:53,920
it was actually filmed in a barn but he

1129
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,880
told everybody it was a it was a tent

1130
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:58,880
and there's a creature on the slab and

1131
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:00,880
there's too many white coats behind it

1132
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,280
pulling giblets out and there's a man

1133
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:04,800
walks in front of the camera now and

1134
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,160
again

1135
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,480
very poor quality quite dark

1136
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:10,800
but that was keith keith made that you

1137
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,119
know and

1138
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,200
the the surgeons and it worked for him

1139
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:17,280
there was employees

1140
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:19,280
so we got our first breakthroughs until

1141
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,480
he just

1142
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:22,319
you know denied any any knowledge of it

1143
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,280
and cast doubt on the film and so on

1144
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:28,000
so that's where the film the idea first

1145
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,839
originated

1146
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:30,960
and

1147
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,280
santilli met uh spiros a tv uh event in

1148
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:37,040
in france

1149
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,960
again just by chance they didn't know

1150
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:40,880
each other when they were all vying for

1151
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:42,480
business

1152
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:46,000
and uh spuros went to ray's office

1153
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:47,760
at least they tried to spin in this

1154
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,760
story about the mysterious cameraman and

1155
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:51,119
he showed him the tent footage and he

1156
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,480
says come on ray

1157
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:55,359
you know i make films

1158
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:57,359
that has never seen a piece of film it's

1159
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:00,160
on video and it was shot on video

1160
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:03,200
and ray pretended he'd been condemned so

1161
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,760
spiros again he's a real nice guy a real

1162
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,119
character said

1163
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,599
how about i make you a film

1164
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,720
and

1165
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,240
they got the money from a chat called

1166
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,319
vodka spielberg

1167
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,240
which was ray's business partner over in

1168
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:18,079
germany

1169
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:19,680
and he made it

1170
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,240
you know him and humphries and and

1171
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:24,079
one or two others all joined in and they

1172
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,480
made the alien autopsy film

1173
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,240
and they made two versions of it the

1174
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:30,079
first one they made

1175
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:31,599
when they fit with lots to film back

1176
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:34,000
they've made an error in it that if you

1177
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:35,760
saw it it would have give the game away

1178
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:37,599
straight away

1179
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:39,599
so they left it they went back the next

1180
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,680
day they've made a another dummy from

1181
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:43,200
the mold

1182
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,400
again there was a problem with it

1183
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,040
there's a hole in the leg um you know an

1184
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:49,440
air pocket so decided to get some bones

1185
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:51,040
from the butchers and some bits and

1186
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:52,319
pieces and stick that in there and it

1187
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:53,839
worked

1188
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:57,680
and uh you know the rest is history but

1189
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:01,200
according to spuros the idea wasn't to

1190
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,200
sell this and make money

1191
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:05,920
the idea was to release it

1192
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:09,119
and then a few months down the line

1193
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,440
you know hold their hand up and admit it

1194
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:13,680
saying we did it as a prank

1195
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,839
they'd hoped to fool people and that way

1196
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,599
guys would say well these are clever

1197
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:21,200
fellas you know making this and fooling

1198
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:22,640
that that they might get some more work

1199
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:24,160
from it

1200
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,079
but of course santilli you know cried

1201
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:27,599
put the poor tail he kept saying well i

1202
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:29,040
haven't got my money back from it and

1203
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:30,960
all this lot so

1204
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:33,119
spiros disappeared into the you know

1205
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,480
into the distance

1206
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:36,640
wasn't interested in ufos he got his own

1207
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:39,200
business to run and off he went

1208
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,040
and it was only when

1209
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:43,040
news circulated about the

1210
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:46,079
uh the alien autopsy movie being made

1211
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,359
that spirits went online and looked you

1212
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:50,880
know what had happened with the alien

1213
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:54,400
autopsy film and was astonished

1214
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:55,680
and that's why he came out of the

1215
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:59,680
woodwork he was absolutely astonished

1216
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,400
and

1217
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:02,240
even more astonished when i told him how

1218
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,000
much money had been made out of it not

1219
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,040
by me but by santillian company

1220
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:09,040
so he went on a record you know i've

1221
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,359
interviewed him he spoke at one of our

1222
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:13,359
conferences like i'd like to say

1223
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:15,040
he showed me all his documentary

1224
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,119
evidence he's writing his own book

1225
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,680
um which will come out at some point

1226
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:21,680
and uh you know what that do we know how

1227
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,319
much fox paid uh what kind of deal

1228
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,119
kiviah was able to make for the film

1229
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:29,599
fifty thousand dollars plus a share of

1230
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:31,680
the video sales

1231
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,640
that's not bad no but it made a little

1232
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:36,960
bit of money i mean it cost thirty plus

1233
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:39,760
to make so about 30 plus

1234
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,200
which he didn't pay by the way you know

1235
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,760
and well i'll swap anybody i'll give

1236
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:47,280
anybody thirty thousand this will give

1237
00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:50,560
me 250 000 in return plus a share of the

1238
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,720
video sales and that was just one

1239
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:53,920
country

1240
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:55,760
you know don't forget all the others i

1241
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,160
mean for example the first stills were

1242
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:00,240
shown in a magazine in france and it's

1243
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:03,680
called vsd they paid 60 000

1244
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:04,640
wow

1245
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:08,560
they paid more for some single stills

1246
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:09,839
i mean when the

1247
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,000
news first broke about it

1248
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:14,000
that i had you know people on the end of

1249
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:15,680
the telephone here

1250
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:17,760
you know flashing their checkbook so to

1251
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,520
speak but i had nothing that i could

1252
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:21,520
give them it wasn't my film

1253
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,079
um and literally it was named me a price

1254
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:25,920
and that's what santilla did it was

1255
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:28,160
almost like an auction and people around

1256
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:29,599
the world bought it it was even shown in

1257
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,520
russia you know and i know the two guys

1258
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,119
that showed it

1259
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:35,280
and um it was an amazing amount then he

1260
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,640
made the movie

1261
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,319
and you probably won't know that the

1262
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:40,160
main characters in it but the two guys

1263
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:42,319
who played ray santilli and his business

1264
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:43,359
partner

1265
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,240
they're called here ant and deck

1266
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,000
and they're a famous double act here

1267
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,160
they started off as child actors then

1268
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:52,160
they had some pop music career and now

1269
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,400
they're tv presenters and they are you

1270
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,880
know really well known here

1271
00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:58,880
but they played the main characters in

1272
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,079
the movie of course again just by chance

1273
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:04,319
i was looking for a small publisher then

1274
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,839
and her boyfriend was a uh banister

1275
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:09,520
and he just happened to know race and

1276
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:11,599
tilly and race until he showed him a

1277
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:13,280
copy of the contract

1278
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,280
um for the movie

1279
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:17,680
and said we look it over for us and lo

1280
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:19,440
and behold you know i gotta look at it

1281
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,240
as well so and you had you what was

1282
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:24,240
going on and they made a ton of money

1283
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,000
make no mistake about it

1284
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,480
yeah so is this something then if we're

1285
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,800
looking at this thing objectively this

1286
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,800
is something that maybe did a lot more

1287
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,800
than they originally expected or hoped

1288
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:36,079
for

1289
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,240
oh absolutely i mean like i said when i

1290
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:40,559
first went to race and tilly's office

1291
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:41,520
his

1292
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:44,000
uh intention was to sell it on video

1293
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:44,960
only

1294
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:47,200
you know and he even had flyers made

1295
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,559
which i still have one where you could

1296
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,640
order it because this was the day before

1297
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:52,079
the internet there was no online

1298
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:54,079
shopping or anything like that

1299
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:55,680
and i think he was charging fifty

1300
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:57,119
dollars a time for it and some people

1301
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,880
did buy it i mean i have a copy of the

1302
00:50:01,430 --> 00:50:00,480
video here

1303
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,440
both in

1304
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:03,680
impal and ntsc

1305
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:04,720
and

1306
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,880
it was only when the the story leaked

1307
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:08,880
out to the press

1308
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,920
that then the tv and the newspapers and

1309
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:14,000
the magazines became involved most of

1310
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,520
them through me to begin with because my

1311
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,440
name was associated with it they could

1312
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,440
find me in the phone book they couldn't

1313
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:21,440
find ray santilli so the calls came to

1314
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,839
me and i passed them on and i i kid you

1315
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:25,760
not i've kept some of the the facts that

1316
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,000
some have faded now but they were coming

1317
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,559
through literally from australia and at

1318
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:33,119
all points in between you know that's

1319
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,800
how crazy it went

1320
00:50:38,549 --> 00:50:36,079
and uh

1321
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:38,559
and santilli set up a screening

1322
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,119
in in march at

1323
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,880
university of london

1324
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:44,800
i thought in the museum of london

1325
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,960
um a lot of the people in there were the

1326
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:49,040
press in the media and the tv executives

1327
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,040
and they showed it and that's not you

1328
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:53,599
know the deals with ends on the table

1329
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:54,640
you know

1330
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:57,599
and then there was never any real film

1331
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,880
there was no pieces of film it was all a

1332
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,119
comment right from day one right from

1333
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:05,200
day one okay because the story did come

1334
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:06,000
out

1335
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,200
that um

1336
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:10,079
to try to i guess maybe drum up uh

1337
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:11,680
publicity for the re-release or

1338
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:12,720
something

1339
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,040
that oh you know some of the footage was

1340
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,280
real and santilli wanted to expand it

1341
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,160
and so he had people come in and try to

1342
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,400
duplicate the footage uh you know

1343
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:24,559
additional scenes and that sort of thing

1344
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:25,920
but you're saying that the whole thing

1345
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,440
100 was just a pure out and out hoax

1346
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,040
let's continue with that in our next

1347
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:33,520
segment the response from philip mantle

1348
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,240
as we get to the end of this story of

1349
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:39,119
the alien autopsy film with gene and

1350
00:51:55,309 --> 00:51:54,069
thank you for listening to gcn

1351
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:55,319
be sure to visit

1352
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,160
gcnlive.com today

1353
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:00,160
attack of the rockoids has been well

1354
00:52:03,750 --> 00:52:02,559
received by critics and readers alike

1355
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:03,760
it's a thrill thrill-a-minute story

1356
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,520
you'll never forget

1357
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:07,440
a former u.s military intelligence

1358
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:09,920
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1359
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:12,480
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1360
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:14,880
help after a terrible battle in outer

1361
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,920
space

1362
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,079
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1363
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,000
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1364
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,720
with a woman whose far away planet is

1365
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,200
intent on destroying the earth

1366
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:27,680
and now the gripping tale continues in

1367
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,160
the coming of the protectors it's the

1368
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,480
second book of the rockoids trilogy

1369
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:34,720
a galaxy spanning adventure that pits

1370
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,200
our hapless heroes against powerful

1371
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:39,440
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1372
00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:41,359
lives of freedom-loving beings

1373
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:42,559
everywhere

1374
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:45,200
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1375
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,160
the protectors classic science fiction

1376
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:50,640
at its best available now

1377
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:53,839
for more details visit rocoids.com

1378
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:01,589
this is dan piller do you have the irs

1379
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,440
money you can't pay are tax debts

1380
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,280
crippling you i've defended people from

1381
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:07,680
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

1382
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:09,760
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

1383
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:11,200
the book on irs settlement and i'm

1384
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:12,880
telling you there's no such thing as a

1385
00:53:18,790 --> 00:53:16,559
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

1386
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:18,800
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

1387
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:20,319
programs there's never been a better

1388
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:23,200
time to solve your problem call 834 no

1389
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:26,960
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

1390
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:32,069
i'm david hall founder of diamond gusset

1391
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:34,000
jeans here to wish you all a merry

1392
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:35,200
christmas

1393
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:37,359
for over 20 years we have built a loyal

1394
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customer base with 100 american-made

1395
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1396
00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:45,200
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1397
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:47,359
today all of our inventory is discounted

1398
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:50,160
by 20 percent so don't delay enjoy a

1399
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:51,760
wonderful shopping experience at

1400
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:53,920
gusset.com thanks for keeping our

1401
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:56,160
american dream alive the original

1402
00:54:04,100 --> 00:53:57,290
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1403
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:06,710
[Applause]

1404
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:10,000
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1405
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:13,599
standard of paranormal radio

1406
00:54:18,220 --> 00:54:14,880
and now

1407
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:18,230
here's gene steinberg

1408
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:24,230
so we're going to move to other subjects

1409
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:26,000
first but let's wrap up

1410
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:28,960
the alien autopsy story philip

1411
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:32,000
yep so in response to chris's comment

1412
00:54:36,069 --> 00:54:33,359
so it was 100

1413
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:36,079
it was just a hoax from from the word go

1414
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:38,000
oh absolutely there's no question about

1415
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:39,520
it one big con

1416
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:41,040
speaking about the hoaxes now that we

1417
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:42,480
have the internet

1418
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:45,119
and uh we have so many of these uh sites

1419
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,119
with spooky music and

1420
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:49,920
and uh real good graphics coming out

1421
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:52,400
with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

1422
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:56,000
of purported ufo photographs and videos

1423
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,760
and having a little bit of knowledge

1424
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:59,119
about how to

1425
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:00,640
analyze

1426
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:03,520
film and video i can pretty much safely

1427
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:07,520
say that 95 to 99 percent of these

1428
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:10,559
if not outright hoaxes are

1429
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,720
insects birds natural natural objects

1430
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:16,319
inexplicable

1431
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,440
drops of water on windows reflections in

1432
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:21,760
in windows that sort of thing

1433
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,119
now that we have such affordable

1434
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:28,160
technology that's off the shelf that

1435
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,040
any

1436
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:31,520
bratty 10 year old could become

1437
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:34,400
proficient with and create all sorts of

1438
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:38,000
of impressive looking purported evidence

1439
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,319
how are we going to uh deal with this in

1440
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:42,480
the field i mean should we just consider

1441
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:44,319
it if it's on the internet to be a hoax

1442
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:46,160
just kind of just assume that it's a

1443
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,799
hoax and and let uh you know better

1444
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:50,640
heads prevail what are we going to do

1445
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:52,480
it's an interesting question i mean

1446
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:54,079
literally just today a chapter have you

1447
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:55,520
seen the

1448
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:58,000
the videos coming out of turkey

1449
00:56:02,150 --> 00:55:59,760
and i had seen some of them and i said

1450
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:02,160
that well therein lies your problem you

1451
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,680
know it's it's online and um

1452
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:08,160
you can't say for sure what is real and

1453
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:09,760
what isn't anymore

1454
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,079
and i tend to ignore anything that goes

1455
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,160
on youtube i look at it purely as

1456
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:16,640
entertainment i mean i i try and put

1457
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:17,680
myself

1458
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:20,240
in you know in such a circumstance if i

1459
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,040
was

1460
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:22,960
out tonight or tomorrow and i'd film

1461
00:56:26,630 --> 00:56:24,960
something that i honestly believe was

1462
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,640
inexplicable

1463
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:28,799
the last thing i would do with it is put

1464
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:31,280
it on youtube or any other website or

1465
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:32,480
anything else

1466
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:34,319
it's as simple as that so i tend to

1467
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,680
ignore it but

1468
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,760
what i can't what i have been doing

1469
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:39,359
and again i've just finished it some of

1470
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:40,799
it today i've been going back through my

1471
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,799
own files because i'm one of the old

1472
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,720
boys now i'm nearly 60.

1473
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:46,799
and i've i've written an article about

1474
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,799
some photographs that were taken not far

1475
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:50,240
from where i live

1476
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:52,799
by a serving police officer at the time

1477
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:56,160
back in 1983 and of course there was no

1478
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:57,119
you know

1479
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:00,160
home computers in those times not at all

1480
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:01,760
but there was an organization in the

1481
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:04,079
states called ground source watch run by

1482
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:06,240
william spalding who did

1483
00:57:11,829 --> 00:57:09,119
computer image enhancement photographs

1484
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:11,839
were sent to bill spalding and they came

1485
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,319
back as unidentified they gave up

1486
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:16,720
there's a whole list of items that

1487
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,240
the reasons why

1488
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:19,920
which i won't bore you with so i've

1489
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:21,920
tended to rely on some of the older

1490
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,200
stuff than perhaps what you see online

1491
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,880
today however

1492
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:29,119
i've written this particular photo case

1493
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:31,359
open we're going to publish it later i

1494
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,960
have put at the bottom it would be

1495
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:34,880
interesting to see what today's

1496
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,400
technology makes of these old

1497
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,480
photographs and and we'll see if

1498
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,559
anything happens with that so if if

1499
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:42,000
somebody says oh have you seen such and

1500
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:44,799
such on youtube it goes in one ear and

1501
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,880
comes out the other i'm afraid for me

1502
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,240
simple as that

1503
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:51,119
earlier on you mentioned um russia now i

1504
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:51,920
know

1505
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:54,000
your good friends and a co-author with

1506
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:55,599
paul stonehill who

1507
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,520
in many people's eyes including my own

1508
00:58:03,589 --> 00:57:59,839
is probably our our most knowledgeable

1509
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,599
expert on ufo sightings uh in russia and

1510
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,760
the former soviet union you've

1511
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:07,440
co-written a number of books with him

1512
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:10,079
and you don't really hear in the united

1513
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:11,839
states very

1514
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,280
in-depth uh reporting about

1515
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:17,520
cases from over there and speaking with

1516
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:18,480
paul

1517
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,440
he just

1518
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:21,760
blew my mind with some of the quality

1519
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:23,760
cases that have occurred over there you

1520
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:24,880
know since

1521
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:26,720
the start of the modern age of ufology

1522
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,599
and and especially now things appear to

1523
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:31,280
be much more

1524
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,280
open and the possibilities of

1525
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:35,280
information getting out seem to be

1526
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:37,200
greater than than it was let's say uh

1527
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:39,440
you know pre-1989-90

1528
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,119
why don't you give us a kind of a

1529
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:42,960
thumbnail sketch of your relationship

1530
00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:46,000
with paul kind of briefly uh give us a

1531
00:58:50,549 --> 00:58:48,319
sense of your work with him and then you

1532
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:50,559
know time permitting we can have uh

1533
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,319
we can have you possibly give us some of

1534
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:55,040
your favorite uh cases from behind

1535
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,280
uh the former uh iron curtain and in

1536
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:00,160
today's russia yeah i mean again we go

1537
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,240
back to 1987.

1538
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:04,480
the official news agency of the soviet

1539
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:07,760
union was called tas tabls and they

1540
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:11,359
released a story about a ufo landing in

1541
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:14,559
a place called varanese in in russia and

1542
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:17,200
it complete with tall humanoid beings

1543
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,440
and it left marx behind et cetera et

1544
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,160
cetera and somehow they got older my

1545
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,040
telephone number and i was interviewed

1546
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:27,440
by a newspaper

1547
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:29,200
in russia called

1548
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:31,040
izbetstea i think that's how you

1549
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,640
pronounce it correctly it was a national

1550
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:33,920
newspaper

1551
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:35,680
and i couldn't say an awful lot because

1552
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,760
all i'd seen was the the tas

1553
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:39,440
press release

1554
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:41,680
out of the blue you know this came so

1555
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,079
they published my my comments

1556
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,000
i mean they sent me a copy of the

1557
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,480
newspaper obviously i couldn't read it

1558
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:50,400
but apparently all it said was philip

1559
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:53,839
mantle ufos battley which is the town i

1560
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,839
used to live in england that's that's

1561
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:57,520
how i was referred to

1562
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:00,319
and then slowly but surely these letters

1563
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,200
started to appear through my letterbox

1564
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,680
saying philip mantle ufos battling

1565
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:07,920
england and if they found their way to

1566
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:09,040
me from

1567
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:11,200
both ufo researchers and the general

1568
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:12,480
public

1569
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:14,799
in the soviet union and then a few books

1570
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:16,640
came and then more stuff came and more

1571
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,160
and more

1572
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:20,480
and got to the stage when i had a

1573
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:22,480
pile of these things and and i'd heard

1574
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:25,520
of paul so i got in touch with him

1575
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:28,079
and i explained what had been happening

1576
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:29,920
and paul said well i've got loads of

1577
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:32,319
stuff you know so i said paul i want you

1578
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:33,599
to have a look at this because i can't

1579
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,760
read the vast majority of it's all in

1580
01:00:40,069 --> 01:00:36,880
russian

1581
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:40,079
so i put it in a box i sent it to him by

1582
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,520
federal express

1583
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:43,280
and i won't repeat the words he said

1584
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,880
when it when he arrived because most of

1585
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:46,240
it he didn't know because it had come

1586
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,240
from the general public people just

1587
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,640
writing to me and then of course as the

1588
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:52,960
the you know the soviet union

1589
01:00:57,430 --> 01:00:55,440
crumbled and the berlin wall came down

1590
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:57,440
then it was much easier to keep in

1591
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:00,240
contact with the people that i'd been in

1592
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:02,880
contact with and paul had and then the

1593
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:04,880
internet and email and all that kind of

1594
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,640
thing helped enormously but the one

1595
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:07,920
thing that helped probably more than

1596
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:09,200
anything else

1597
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:10,559
that for those that don't know paul

1598
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:12,720
originally come from the ukraine he

1599
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:15,599
could speak and read and write russia

1600
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,799
so we had no problems uh for once with

1601
01:01:22,390 --> 01:01:20,400
the language barrier

1602
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:22,400
and that then opened the doors so we

1603
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:25,280
decided you know we better let somebody

1604
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:26,880
know about this material and we

1605
01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:28,960
published it accordingly and still are

1606
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:31,920
doing them you know we it never stops

1607
01:01:35,589 --> 01:01:33,920
and there was you know there's more

1608
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:35,599
information there than

1609
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,520
than people realize

1610
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,440
and we just don't have the time and and

1611
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:41,760
the finances to to do more than we do

1612
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:42,960
but

1613
01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:45,200
it's just absolutely fascinating what

1614
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:46,640
came out of russia

1615
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:48,319
and still does

1616
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:50,240
now in terms of

1617
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:52,720
sightings in russia and we all think

1618
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:55,760
about putin and all the control over the

1619
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,760
messages there

1620
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,520
what happens to people who dare to

1621
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:02,240
report sightings in russia

1622
01:02:07,030 --> 01:02:04,559
is there a problem with that or it

1623
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:07,040
doesn't matter no there's no there's no

1624
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:10,240
problem now gene um there was under the

1625
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:13,119
old soviet regime uh there was a time

1626
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,839
when to study ufos was what they called

1627
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:18,160
a banned subject

1628
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:20,319
and and if you were caught you could

1629
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,240
literally be sent to the gulag you know

1630
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,480
literally or even worse

1631
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:26,880
it was unlikely that that was you know a

1632
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:28,240
possibility

1633
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:31,520
uh under the old regime

1634
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:32,559
however

1635
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:34,640
what we found out there was an incident

1636
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:36,720
that happened and i can't pronounce it

1637
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:38,559
so i'm not even going to try

1638
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:40,400
on the border between

1639
01:02:46,150 --> 01:02:43,520
uh the soviet union and china

1640
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:46,160
what it did the military were there and

1641
01:02:50,789 --> 01:02:49,119
this sighting it took out all their uh

1642
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:50,799
telecommunications

1643
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:53,200
so they couldn't contact anybody and it

1644
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:55,520
really made the the soviets sit up

1645
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:57,599
and take notice and what they did

1646
01:03:01,589 --> 01:03:00,079
unbeknown to us here in the west as a

1647
01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:01,599
result of that

1648
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:02,720
everybody

1649
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:06,960
soviet military and we're talking a few

1650
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,960
million people but at this time you know

1651
01:03:11,829 --> 01:03:10,319
from the lowest of the lowest to the

1652
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:11,839
highest of the highs

1653
01:03:16,950 --> 01:03:14,960
were instructed to officially report any

1654
01:03:20,789 --> 01:03:16,960
ufo sightings

1655
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:20,799
uh i report it to the infamous kgb

1656
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,240
once the building wall came down of

1657
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:24,799
course those files that

1658
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,240
the kgb files were released and we in

1659
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:30,480
the west were totally oblivious to them

1660
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:33,520
and it's today is the biggest of uh

1661
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:36,319
government official government ufo study

1662
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:37,520
ever done

1663
01:03:41,670 --> 01:03:39,599
uh and we will look again and translate

1664
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:41,680
it to english and

1665
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:43,039
you know i want to ask you more about

1666
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:44,559
that in a moment we have philip mantle

1667
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:46,880
talking about sightings

1668
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1748
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1754
01:07:34,549 --> 01:07:32,400
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1756
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:37,680
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1765
01:08:09,270 --> 01:08:05,680
comment or question about the paracast

1766
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:09,280
send it to news at theparacast.com

1767
01:08:14,309 --> 01:08:12,480
that's news at the paracast.com

1768
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,319
and don't forget to visit our famous

1769
01:08:19,610 --> 01:08:16,799
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1770
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:19,620
forum.theparacast.com

1771
01:08:24,070 --> 01:08:21,279
[Music]

1772
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,080
chris is hiding in russia right now in

1773
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:26,400
case they find out is there any official

1774
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:28,400
government position on this or have they

1775
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:30,640
ever commented on it philip

1776
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,719
no there isn't i mean i i've had russian

1777
01:08:36,309 --> 01:08:34,400
scientists come stay with me who were

1778
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:36,319
involved in these studies

1779
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:39,359
and um you know i even had a

1780
01:08:43,749 --> 01:08:42,239
former kgb officer come stay with me

1781
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:43,759
at the same time

1782
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,440
they didn't get on they wouldn't talk to

1783
01:08:48,309 --> 01:08:47,440
each other you know the military in the

1784
01:08:49,510 --> 01:08:48,319
uh

1785
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:49,520
academics

1786
01:08:53,590 --> 01:08:51,520
and but no no i mean they were quite

1787
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:53,600
open-minded about it if there was any

1788
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,880
knowledge to be had of course they

1789
01:08:57,749 --> 01:08:55,920
wanted to be

1790
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:57,759
the the first to get it

1791
01:09:01,749 --> 01:08:59,199
certainly certainly more than you know

1792
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,759
getting more than the americans

1793
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:03,839
i remember talking to paul

1794
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:06,080
um at one point uh in editing an

1795
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:07,120
interview

1796
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:09,040
that we did for the disclosure dialogues

1797
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:11,279
project and he mentioned a really

1798
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:13,679
amazing case that uh allegedly took

1799
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:15,679
place in lake mccall

1800
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:17,839
where a giant humanoid kind of

1801
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:22,080
underwater merman had been cited

1802
01:09:25,349 --> 01:09:24,000
i guess by locals and the government

1803
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:25,359
sent a

1804
01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:27,679
team of divers to uh

1805
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:29,759
uh to investigate do you recall that

1806
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:32,080
particular case yeah absolutely late by

1807
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:33,440
carl and many

1808
01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:35,120
uh you know the biggest

1809
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:37,279
lake of its kind in in continental

1810
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,239
europe

1811
01:09:42,630 --> 01:09:40,239
not only that when you when you we call

1812
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:42,640
that particular incident the swimmers

1813
01:09:45,910 --> 01:09:45,120
because when they when the the navy got

1814
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:45,920
there

1815
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:48,000
they sent the divers down and they could

1816
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,560
see these creatures apparently but they

1817
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,560
couldn't reach them because you know we

1818
01:09:57,189 --> 01:09:54,080
couldn't dive that far they couldn't

1819
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:57,199
scuba dive down uh far enough to

1820
01:10:01,750 --> 01:09:59,840
actually get hold of them what we did

1821
01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:01,760
and we've written a book called russia's

1822
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:03,679
uso secrets

1823
01:10:07,030 --> 01:10:04,719
and

1824
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:07,040
when you study the area

1825
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:09,040
you realize that

1826
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:10,480
a lot of things happened around that

1827
01:10:15,669 --> 01:10:13,280
area but with now classes paranormal

1828
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:15,679
and these beings for whatever better

1829
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:17,760
word were only part of it

1830
01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:20,320
and not only was it happening then it

1831
01:10:24,709 --> 01:10:22,880
had been happening down the decades it

1832
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:24,719
was nothing new it was one of those

1833
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:27,760
areas that you know anything everything

1834
01:10:33,110 --> 01:10:30,880
and these incidents were firmly placed

1835
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:33,120
and cemented in the local myth and

1836
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:34,960
legend and folklore of of the

1837
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,520
surrounding area and and you know it's

1838
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:39,760
it's baffling i'm absolutely baffling

1839
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:41,760
you know as simple as that i'm no

1840
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:44,000
explanation for it so we know it as the

1841
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:45,199
swimmers

1842
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,719
you know what do you make of it i i

1843
01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:48,480
honestly don't know

1844
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,520
stories coming out and i think i've

1845
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:53,520
seen this in print that

1846
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,000
at one point this thing attacked

1847
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:58,000
some of the diving personnel and one guy

1848
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:00,080
was literally thrown out of the water so

1849
01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:01,760
violently that when he hit the ground he

1850
01:11:04,470 --> 01:11:03,040
died

1851
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:04,480
do you recall that little detailer is

1852
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:06,960
this embellishment that's kind of taken

1853
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:09,199
on a life of its own

1854
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,960
you have to be careful because there is

1855
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:12,800
you know myth and folklore involved in

1856
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,640
it some some aspects of it do take a

1857
01:11:18,149 --> 01:11:16,320
life on it but so on

1858
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:18,159
but what we did find that this wasn't a

1859
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,159
you know one-off incident with the uh

1860
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:21,840
the soviet navy

1861
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:24,320
both military and maritime

1862
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:25,440
and

1863
01:11:29,590 --> 01:11:27,440
time after time that we kept you know we

1864
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:29,600
found other encounters not necessarily

1865
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:31,600
exactly the same as this but certainly

1866
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,280
encountered out at sea

1867
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,199
or under the water and just over the

1868
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:37,520
water and of course some of them the

1869
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:39,440
russians thought they were it's like the

1870
01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:42,239
old foo fighter days you know when when

1871
01:11:46,149 --> 01:11:44,080
the uh the pilots during the second

1872
01:11:47,910 --> 01:11:46,159
world war saw these strange graft they

1873
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:47,920
assumed it was the nazis the nazis

1874
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,320
assumed it was us and it's the same with

1875
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,280
the us olds you know when the the the

1876
01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:55,760
soviet submarine fleet has been out and

1877
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,840
they've heard and recorded these things

1878
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,679
they think well it must be there it must

1879
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:01,360
be the russians

1880
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:04,239
and in return the americans think uh it

1881
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:05,760
must be the russians also one think it's

1882
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:06,960
americans the other thing is the

1883
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,800
russians and of course

1884
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:10,640
yeah when truth be told it's nine of

1885
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,320
them you know

1886
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,640
we don't know what it is so it's almost

1887
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:16,400
a replay of the old full fighter

1888
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:18,880
phenomenon but underwater instead

1889
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:20,880
so sometime when you when you

1890
01:12:25,910 --> 01:12:21,600
you

1891
01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:25,920
accounts lacking like by cal it then

1892
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:28,000
takes you off on a tangent and other

1893
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:30,000
information comes in from unexpected

1894
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:32,159
areas it will never surprise me what

1895
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:35,120
drops to our letterbox next uh not just

1896
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:36,960
from russia but from anywhere

1897
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:38,880
right mountain of information an

1898
01:12:43,350 --> 01:12:41,120
absolute amount and unlike you say

1899
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,360
hardly anybody knows about it and it's

1900
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:45,120
you know it's just not right

1901
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:47,040
so do you think that there's a lot of

1902
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:48,880
activity that happens

1903
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,280
in the far east in russia in particular

1904
01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:54,239
uh that's not being reported that um is

1905
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:55,760
just part of their everyday

1906
01:12:59,350 --> 01:12:58,320
uh existence well yeah i mean we have to

1907
01:13:01,350 --> 01:12:59,360
remember

1908
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:01,360
although the soviet union's gone but

1909
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:04,560
russia is the still the biggest country

1910
01:13:08,790 --> 01:13:06,640
in the world you know i i live in little

1911
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:08,800
old england i'm talking about you know

1912
01:13:14,310 --> 01:13:12,560
in in in area sure and well it spans

1913
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:14,320
11 time zones i think

1914
01:13:17,669 --> 01:13:15,920
yeah yeah i couldn't get to grips with

1915
01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:17,679
america when i went from one side to the

1916
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:19,120
other every time i got off the plane i

1917
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:20,960
had to change to change my watch you

1918
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:23,120
imagine doing that in russia

1919
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:25,040
but there are what i'm trying to get is

1920
01:13:28,950 --> 01:13:26,719
there are vast areas in russia whether

1921
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:28,960
it's either nobody there or hardly

1922
01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:30,239
anybody there

1923
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:32,880
and um you know to get any kind of

1924
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:35,840
information out of these areas is is

1925
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,000
almost impossible there's no restriction

1926
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:40,080
it's just just because the way they are

1927
01:13:44,070 --> 01:13:41,520
as simple as that

1928
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,080
you know i remember back in the 90s

1929
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,640
uh the american tv show sightings did a

1930
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:48,560
very intriguing episode

1931
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:50,719
um covering an area

1932
01:13:55,110 --> 01:13:53,040
that would be west of moscow

1933
01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:55,120
called the m triangle

1934
01:13:59,110 --> 01:13:56,960
and i always thought that boy if i ever

1935
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:59,120
went over to that part of the world

1936
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:01,440
that's one place that i'd want to go um

1937
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:03,520
can you give a give us a little uh kind

1938
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:06,080
of a sense of this particular sort of

1939
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:08,640
very anomalous zone that

1940
01:14:12,470 --> 01:14:10,880
has kind of got a life of its own yeah i

1941
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:12,480
mean in russia they call them an

1942
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:13,679
anomalous

1943
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:16,080
we in the west have called these areas

1944
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:18,000
uh window areas

1945
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:19,440
and some people are now calling them

1946
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:21,040
something else and i don't know you know

1947
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:23,040
but it's the same thing it's just in the

1948
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:24,960
end zone it's one of those areas as we

1949
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:27,920
was explaining earlier that everything

1950
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,400
happened you know so you'll have strange

1951
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:32,400
jobs i'm not talking about these bits of

1952
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:34,000
dust that people photograph i'm talking

1953
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:36,719
about balls of light that seem to be in

1954
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,120
inverted commas intelligence

1955
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:42,239
you know you will have apparitions of

1956
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:45,199
the whole host of different creatures a

1957
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:47,040
lot of link to what we would know in

1958
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,760
folklore you will have hauntings you

1959
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:51,600
will have poltergeists you'll have big

1960
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:53,280
foot you know whatever the russian

1961
01:14:59,510 --> 01:14:56,480
equivalent is too big for all in this

1962
01:15:01,270 --> 01:14:59,520
one area you know and the end zone or

1963
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:01,280
the anomalous zone and there's a few of

1964
01:15:07,030 --> 01:15:04,560
those uh in in russia like i mentioned

1965
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:07,040
the area around lake baikal

1966
01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:09,679
and this the m zone is one of them and i

1967
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,280
i've got a couple of photographs in one

1968
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:13,199
of my files of some of these balls of

1969
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:14,080
light

1970
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,000
that were photographed you know in that

1971
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:18,320
particular area just the end zone and

1972
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:20,560
when you look at ufology around the

1973
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:21,600
world

1974
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:24,239
then similar things happen here for

1975
01:15:27,669 --> 01:15:25,679
example

1976
01:15:29,990 --> 01:15:27,679
i was quite fortunate when i

1977
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:30,000
became interested in this subject that

1978
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:31,840
was areas in and around what we call the

1979
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:34,400
yorkshire dales national park that we

1980
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:36,640
would today call it an anomalous zone

1981
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:38,880
because you know i was investigating the

1982
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:41,040
ufo sightings there a lot of which were

1983
01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:43,360
these strange balls of light but once we

1984
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:44,719
put boots on the ground and went

1985
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,719
knocking on doors we talked to the

1986
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:48,800
villagers and people like this and we

1987
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:51,600
got tales of the ghost dogs you know

1988
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:54,239
witches uh you know you name it it was

1989
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:55,920
all there and it was all in this one

1990
01:16:01,350 --> 01:15:58,560
area so like you say but then all of a

1991
01:16:03,270 --> 01:16:01,360
sudden it seems to disappear you know

1992
01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:03,280
and then at some point in time and five

1993
01:16:07,030 --> 01:16:04,719
ten years later

1994
01:16:08,470 --> 01:16:07,040
bang off we go again like martha you

1995
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:08,480
know the martha lights and things like

1996
01:16:13,030 --> 01:16:11,120
that and russia is no different but what

1997
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:13,040
you do find is that each

1998
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:16,800
um country the reports are influenced by

1999
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:19,679
its culture for example the landing at

2000
01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:22,320
boronics the beings that were reported

2001
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:24,320
were seven or eight feet tall

2002
01:16:27,669 --> 01:16:26,320
you know you don't get that

2003
01:16:29,189 --> 01:16:27,679
certainly in america

2004
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:29,199
around these parts

2005
01:16:33,669 --> 01:16:31,040
let's pursue that in our next segment

2006
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:33,679
with philip mantle the differences in

2007
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:36,239
ufo culture from country to country

2008
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:37,920
because that raises so many interesting

2009
01:16:50,070 --> 01:16:39,840
questions with gina and chris you're in

2010
01:16:54,830 --> 01:16:53,510
thank you for listening to gcn

2011
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:54,840
be sure to visit

2012
01:16:59,590 --> 01:16:57,600
gcnlive.com today

2013
01:17:01,510 --> 01:16:59,600
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2014
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want to own your own business afraid to

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2016
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2017
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2098
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2105
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george if you decide to connect with

2106
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hi this is nick pope you're listening to

2107
01:21:10,870 --> 01:21:08,470
just want to remind you that we have the

2108
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:10,880
second radio show after the power cast

2109
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:13,040
we want you to listen to it and the best

2110
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:15,520
way to support the show is to join the

2111
01:21:19,510 --> 01:21:17,840
power cast plus which includes after the

2112
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:19,520
power cast commercial free version of

2113
01:21:25,189 --> 01:21:22,960
this show also other features videos and

2114
01:21:28,630 --> 01:21:25,199
other side of truth episodes audio and

2115
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:28,640
video lots more coming go to plus plus

2116
01:21:33,669 --> 01:21:30,330
dot thepowercast.complus.theparacast.com

2117
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:35,669
and you'll learn more philip mantle is

2118
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:38,000
joining us talking about cultural

2119
01:21:41,350 --> 01:21:39,440
differences

2120
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:41,360
in say the kind of creatures seen from

2121
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:42,880
country to country

2122
01:21:45,430 --> 01:21:43,679
now

2123
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:45,440
when you raise that and this is a very

2124
01:21:49,590 --> 01:21:47,040
common issue

2125
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,600
in ufo research that we note

2126
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:52,000
doesn't that kind of go against

2127
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:53,840
the basic assumption

2128
01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:54,800
that

2129
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:57,280
ufos are just spaceships

2130
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,360
from other worlds

2131
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:01,679
and that therefore if that's the case if

2132
01:22:06,149 --> 01:22:03,679
they're physical craft

2133
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:06,159
and now the other stuff is involved they

2134
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:07,679
would look the same from country to

2135
01:22:12,149 --> 01:22:09,199
country the creatures would look the

2136
01:22:14,149 --> 01:22:12,159
same from country to country that varies

2137
01:22:15,669 --> 01:22:14,159
opens up other possibilities isn't it

2138
01:22:18,550 --> 01:22:15,679
absolutely gene and it's not just

2139
01:22:20,229 --> 01:22:18,560
country to country irony if you get the

2140
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:20,239
history books out look at the history of

2141
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:21,600
ufology

2142
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:23,120
and we'll start with kenneth arnold

2143
01:22:25,669 --> 01:22:24,560
we'll start from that area you know

2144
01:22:26,629 --> 01:22:25,679
we're gonna have a starting point

2145
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:26,639
somewhere

2146
01:22:30,149 --> 01:22:29,199
you know in the 1950s we had the space

2147
01:22:32,070 --> 01:22:30,159
brothers

2148
01:22:34,709 --> 01:22:32,080
now where have they gone you know we

2149
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:34,719
have the nice blonde air guys and

2150
01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:37,199
beautiful women where'd they go you know

2151
01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:39,520
lately in the 60s we get them you know

2152
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:42,800
different creatures so it has evolved

2153
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:43,600
and

2154
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:44,800
like you say

2155
01:22:48,310 --> 01:22:47,440
the cultural influences are there to be

2156
01:22:50,709 --> 01:22:48,320
seen

2157
01:22:53,110 --> 01:22:50,719
but again you know you've got to read

2158
01:22:55,270 --> 01:22:53,120
the other reports and accounts from

2159
01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:55,280
different parts of the world it's only

2160
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,760
when you you can do that you realize

2161
01:23:01,270 --> 01:22:59,199
that you're looking at you know the

2162
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:01,280
cultural influence that

2163
01:23:06,790 --> 01:23:03,920
uh is embedded into this phenomena we

2164
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:06,800
interpret it in our own way but like

2165
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:08,800
what you're saying is if this truly was

2166
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,199
a spaceship from another world then we

2167
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:13,440
should all view it exactly the same the

2168
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:16,719
fact that we don't speaks volumes but it

2169
01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:19,040
nonetheless it doesn't take anything

2170
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,040
away from the sighting or the experience

2171
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:24,000
that the people are all the individuals

2172
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,840
have undergone you know i gave the

2173
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:27,440
example there in russia

2174
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:29,360
that instant the socialites that be

2175
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:30,880
there you know the russian bear big

2176
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:33,280
strong guys you know we can eat anything

2177
01:23:36,870 --> 01:23:34,719
the drink vodka

2178
01:23:38,870 --> 01:23:36,880
their aliens were over seven feet tall

2179
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:38,880
in america which is the technological

2180
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:41,520
society you know the the most powerful

2181
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,280
nation on earth at the moment

2182
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:45,520
you know the little grey guys came along

2183
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:47,520
here in britain we've had all kinds of

2184
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:49,679
things you know so that is there is you

2185
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,719
know there's other dozens of alien races

2186
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:54,560
coming or there's something else

2187
01:23:59,669 --> 01:23:56,719
happening i would tend to follow the

2188
01:24:01,830 --> 01:23:59,679
latter but you know which i really don't

2189
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:01,840
know but that's just my opinion i'll

2190
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:03,280
give you an example i've just put up you

2191
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,120
know i've published a couple of books

2192
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:07,120
one from poland one from russia and

2193
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:09,520
again when you read them they're from

2194
01:24:14,070 --> 01:24:11,920
the same sort of eastern european area

2195
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,080
they're not that far apart but again you

2196
01:24:18,709 --> 01:24:16,400
can see their cultural influences in

2197
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:18,719
their what we call the close encounters

2198
01:24:23,189 --> 01:24:21,280
as simple as that and it's an area

2199
01:24:24,790 --> 01:24:23,199
that's been ignored for a long time but

2200
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:24,800
people like jacques valley have looked

2201
01:24:30,470 --> 01:24:27,600
into it one or two others but uh it is

2202
01:24:31,910 --> 01:24:30,480
absolutely fascinating and anyone can go

2203
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:31,920
and see it it's not you know you don't

2204
01:24:34,950 --> 01:24:33,360
have to believe me and go and check it

2205
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:34,960
for yourself

2206
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:36,480
well you know what just one thing that

2207
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:38,480
occurs to me is we

2208
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:40,639
describe these differences from culture

2209
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:42,880
to culture country to country

2210
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:45,440
now a couple of weeks back we featured

2211
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:48,159
jan harzam the executive director of

2212
01:24:50,870 --> 01:24:49,679
mufon

2213
01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:50,880
and

2214
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:52,800
one of the things that kind of bothered

2215
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:53,840
me or

2216
01:24:58,550 --> 01:24:56,639
concerned me is the fact that when they

2217
01:24:59,669 --> 01:24:58,560
send their investigators in to check out

2218
01:25:03,350 --> 01:24:59,679
a sighting

2219
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:03,360
the questions are focused on the event

2220
01:25:05,990 --> 01:25:04,239
not

2221
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:06,000
the witness

2222
01:25:09,669 --> 01:25:08,000
so you know i'd ask questions like well

2223
01:25:12,629 --> 01:25:09,679
you know some people report strange

2224
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:12,639
odors preceding a paranormal event

2225
01:25:16,709 --> 01:25:14,880
is that part of your program well if the

2226
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:16,719
person volunteers it

2227
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:19,440
they don't think of the individual

2228
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:21,440
they don't look for differences

2229
01:25:25,910 --> 01:25:24,159
like that they just look at ufos are

2230
01:25:27,830 --> 01:25:25,920
separate from the witness they're just

2231
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:27,840
there and if you happen to be lucky

2232
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:30,159
enough or unlucky enough to see them

2233
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:31,600
well they'll get that information

2234
01:25:36,870 --> 01:25:33,840
they'll record it but that's overlooking

2235
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:36,880
an entire class of information about

2236
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,360
this subject don't you think absolutely

2237
01:25:44,149 --> 01:25:41,520
you know i've been asked is there any

2238
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:44,159
you know particular

2239
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:46,400
person or type of person

2240
01:25:51,030 --> 01:25:49,440
that will have these experiences

2241
01:25:52,830 --> 01:25:51,040
i'm not talking about race i'm talking

2242
01:25:55,830 --> 01:25:52,840
about you know any any

2243
01:25:57,910 --> 01:25:55,840
type and we had a i had a colleague who

2244
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:57,920
assembly no longer with us lived in

2245
01:26:03,110 --> 01:26:00,000
london called ken phillips and that's

2246
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:03,120
precisely what ken and some professional

2247
01:26:06,550 --> 01:26:04,239
um

2248
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:06,560
psychologists were doing

2249
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:08,800
uh they didn't look

2250
01:26:13,110 --> 01:26:10,880
at what the witnesses account was

2251
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:13,120
although they did make a record of it

2252
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,480
but they looked at the witnesses

2253
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:16,320
themselves i can't remember the name of

2254
01:26:21,750 --> 01:26:19,440
the project he did they it ran for years

2255
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:21,760
and they were trying to find you know

2256
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:24,480
if there was a common denominator and

2257
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:25,679
and we'll tell you when he died the

2258
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:27,600
project tended but at that point he

2259
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:30,480
hadn't found one but you know ken and

2260
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:31,760
he's got i think it was called the

2261
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:34,159
ananesis project i don't know what that

2262
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:36,480
means but they were looking at the

2263
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:39,840
people and uh not not the experience

2264
01:26:44,390 --> 01:26:41,760
because at the end of the day

2265
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:44,400
with most ufo sightings that's all you

2266
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:47,040
have you know you have a person or

2267
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:49,840
individuals and will explain what they

2268
01:26:53,430 --> 01:26:52,080
have seen or whatever

2269
01:26:55,830 --> 01:26:53,440
there's no phys they don't have any

2270
01:26:58,070 --> 01:26:55,840
physical evidence so surely

2271
01:27:00,310 --> 01:26:58,080
you know it's like you know

2272
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,320
the police will do a profile on someone

2273
01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:02,159
you know would shouldn't be doing the

2274
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:03,199
same

2275
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:05,360
and i think we should but the way we

2276
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:07,280
found out like that is they're acting as

2277
01:27:11,669 --> 01:27:09,360
if they already know the answer you know

2278
01:27:13,430 --> 01:27:11,679
ufos are alien spaceships and we're just

2279
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:13,440
looking for more evidence to prove that

2280
01:27:16,709 --> 01:27:14,880
well

2281
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:16,719
they're not looking into the ufo mystery

2282
01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:19,679
they're looking at the ufo answer

2283
01:27:22,629 --> 01:27:21,280
well yeah they've already you know they

2284
01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:22,639
you know they they think they've already

2285
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:24,880
got it it just confirms their their

2286
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,520
their belief system really and i think

2287
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:29,280
it's the wrong way to go about it i

2288
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:31,679
certainly don't look at it that way you

2289
01:27:36,310 --> 01:27:33,679
know i look upon my

2290
01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:36,320
i'll call it a job but my experience is

2291
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:38,080
trying to document this in in whatever

2292
01:27:43,110 --> 01:27:40,719
way i can hopefully somebody somewhere

2293
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:43,120
at a later date maybe i'll make sense of

2294
01:27:47,189 --> 01:27:44,960
it all because as it stands at this

2295
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:47,199
moment in time we can't but you know

2296
01:27:50,709 --> 01:27:48,880
it's as simple as that

2297
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,719
i mean not only that

2298
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:52,159
let's assume

2299
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:54,000
you know for the sake of argument that

2300
01:27:57,910 --> 01:27:56,400
ufos are alien spaceships from wherever

2301
01:27:58,870 --> 01:27:57,920
you've got to ask us first how did they

2302
01:28:01,750 --> 01:27:58,880
find us

2303
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:01,760
you know it's an awful big universe out

2304
01:28:05,030 --> 01:28:03,840
there then when they get here

2305
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:05,040
you know

2306
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:06,960
they look pretty much like us

2307
01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:09,120
by most accounts you know head to eyes

2308
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:11,600
to arms two legs what's the odds on that

2309
01:28:15,030 --> 01:28:12,960
you know we look at the diversity of

2310
01:28:16,629 --> 01:28:15,040
life on our own planet you know just to

2311
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:16,639
give you an example

2312
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:18,320
and not only is there one species of

2313
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:20,719
them again i i showed a chapter

2314
01:28:25,510 --> 01:28:23,199
you know a montage of them there's all

2315
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:25,520
different kinds of you know humanoids

2316
01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:27,600
supposedly visiting us so you know is

2317
01:28:32,390 --> 01:28:30,239
this this is the holiday particle and i

2318
01:28:33,189 --> 01:28:32,400
said yeah you know it just doesn't add

2319
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,199
up

2320
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:35,120
for me anyway that's my own personal

2321
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:37,679
opinion nobody has to share it's just

2322
01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:39,360
it doesn't

2323
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:41,920
yeah looking at british ufology i know

2324
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:43,520
you've had books that cover other

2325
01:28:48,390 --> 01:28:46,080
countries are there large national

2326
01:28:50,950 --> 01:28:48,400
organizations that are in any way

2327
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:50,960
equivalent to a mufon

2328
01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:52,800
no it used to be

2329
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:55,280
um there was the british ufo research

2330
01:28:59,990 --> 01:28:58,239
association which i remember for many

2331
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,000
many years

2332
01:29:04,229 --> 01:29:02,560
sadly it's it's only it's still still

2333
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:04,239
going but it's only a shadow of its

2334
01:29:09,990 --> 01:29:06,960
former self i'm afraid there are some

2335
01:29:11,189 --> 01:29:10,000
smaller you know ufo groups up and down

2336
01:29:13,510 --> 01:29:11,199
the country

2337
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:13,520
but you know all of that changed uh when

2338
01:29:16,709 --> 01:29:16,080
the internet came along that people

2339
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:16,719
and

2340
01:29:21,590 --> 01:29:18,480
old boys like me was been at it a long

2341
01:29:23,990 --> 01:29:21,600
time a few and far between not only that

2342
01:29:25,990 --> 01:29:24,000
when we used to have these groups group

2343
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:26,000
meetings and things like that you would

2344
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:28,639
see the next generation of people coming

2345
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:30,639
along well i don't see that anymore you

2346
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:32,880
know i don't see the young people trying

2347
01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:34,639
to kick me out of my chair and saying

2348
01:29:38,629 --> 01:29:36,960
you know i'm taking over because i

2349
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:38,639
remember when we did that you know when

2350
01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:41,280
i was a young fella

2351
01:29:45,189 --> 01:29:43,440
absolutely and it's only right you know

2352
01:29:48,149 --> 01:29:45,199
i've no problem with it but i don't see

2353
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:48,159
that so maybe i'm wrong you know maybe

2354
01:29:51,189 --> 01:29:49,520
the internet generation is going to

2355
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:51,199
prove us all wrong but we'll wait and

2356
01:29:55,590 --> 01:29:53,040
see yeah

2357
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:55,600
i wouldn't i wouldn't uh go to vegas and

2358
01:29:59,510 --> 01:29:57,600
and bet on that

2359
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:59,520
i'll understand but we never know we

2360
01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:01,440
never know what's around the corner do

2361
01:30:04,629 --> 01:30:02,719
we well

2362
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:04,639
we don't but we do have some questions

2363
01:30:07,910 --> 01:30:06,719
in our question bank where our listeners

2364
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:07,920
are able to

2365
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:10,400
log in and post questions uh so that we

2366
01:30:15,669 --> 01:30:13,120
can ask our guests and we have some real

2367
01:30:17,270 --> 01:30:15,679
up to speed and very intelligent

2368
01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:17,280
listenership and uh

2369
01:30:22,070 --> 01:30:18,560
forum community

2370
01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:22,080
and specter 73 has a good question

2371
01:30:26,310 --> 01:30:24,400
and he's wondering philip what would be

2372
01:30:28,229 --> 01:30:26,320
your explanation on the lack of close

2373
01:30:30,149 --> 01:30:28,239
encounters of the third kind in recent

2374
01:30:32,070 --> 01:30:30,159
years and do you know of any recent

2375
01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:32,080
cases there in england

2376
01:30:36,550 --> 01:30:34,080
let's hold that answer for a moment

2377
01:30:39,030 --> 01:30:36,560
philip manta will answer about close

2378
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:39,040
encounter cases and more with gina and

2379
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:53,030
thank you for listening to gcn

2380
01:30:57,510 --> 01:30:53,950
visit

2381
01:31:03,189 --> 01:30:59,830
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2458
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2459
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2460
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2461
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2462
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2463
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2464
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:14,639
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2465
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2466
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2467
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2468
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2469
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2470
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2471
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2472
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2473
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2474
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2475
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2476
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delicious water now and in an emergency

2477
01:35:05,350 --> 01:34:50,400
get to goberky.com or call

2478
01:35:11,189 --> 01:35:07,430
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

2479
01:35:19,030 --> 01:35:11,199
ufo.com you're listening to the peracast

2480
01:35:23,590 --> 01:35:21,189
so philip mantle what about

2481
01:35:26,390 --> 01:35:23,600
recent close encounter cases

2482
01:35:29,669 --> 01:35:26,400
good question and the answer to it is no

2483
01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:29,679
i i can't recollect any and again

2484
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:31,280
not just from the uk

2485
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:33,920
but from from anywhere really

2486
01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:35,600
again if you if you look at the

2487
01:35:39,110 --> 01:35:38,080
literature historically

2488
01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:39,120
the

2489
01:35:48,629 --> 01:35:46,880
seem to have peaks and troughs

2490
01:35:50,229 --> 01:35:48,639
when they're reported

2491
01:35:52,310 --> 01:35:50,239
for example

2492
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:52,320
here in the uk

2493
01:35:59,030 --> 01:35:55,360
certainly the late 1970s over into the

2494
01:36:01,270 --> 01:35:59,040
early 1980s was a whole host of these uh

2495
01:36:03,030 --> 01:36:01,280
close encounters and i've got some of

2496
01:36:04,470 --> 01:36:03,040
the files here i wasn't personally

2497
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:04,480
involved in some of them but i've got

2498
01:36:08,790 --> 01:36:05,760
the files

2499
01:36:11,189 --> 01:36:08,800
and then it it falls away and then you

2500
01:36:13,350 --> 01:36:11,199
know there's a time period later on up

2501
01:36:15,590 --> 01:36:13,360
it pops again that seems to happen in

2502
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,600
different countries around the world

2503
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:17,520
it seems to follow the release of uh

2504
01:36:22,149 --> 01:36:20,560
popular uh et theme movies

2505
01:36:24,550 --> 01:36:22,159
of course uh close encounters the third

2506
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:24,560
kind came out you had a big peak of

2507
01:36:30,229 --> 01:36:26,880
reports that kind of in some ways

2508
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:30,239
mirrored uh the movie that kind of fades

2509
01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:32,560
out then you have the big book communion

2510
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:34,480
comes out and all of a sudden there's

2511
01:36:39,030 --> 01:36:36,960
all these abduction cases that seem to

2512
01:36:41,590 --> 01:36:39,040
crop up for a number of years and then

2513
01:36:43,350 --> 01:36:41,600
that fades away then independence day

2514
01:36:45,189 --> 01:36:43,360
comes out and all of a sudden you have

2515
01:36:46,390 --> 01:36:45,199
big huge ships that are blocking out the

2516
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,400
sky

2517
01:36:51,350 --> 01:36:48,960
if this is true and we do see some sort

2518
01:36:54,149 --> 01:36:51,360
of correlation with uh with

2519
01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:54,159
media projects the culture do you think

2520
01:36:59,669 --> 01:36:56,719
that there's a possibility that that the

2521
01:37:02,629 --> 01:36:59,679
culture itself is manufacturing real

2522
01:37:04,550 --> 01:37:02,639
events uh that tend to mimic or mirror

2523
01:37:06,470 --> 01:37:04,560
popular uh memes uh that have been

2524
01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:06,480
propagated in the culture is that a

2525
01:37:10,550 --> 01:37:08,800
possibility not at all i mean you know

2526
01:37:13,270 --> 01:37:10,560
we're influenced by pop culture in a

2527
01:37:14,950 --> 01:37:13,280
whole host of ways and ufos is no

2528
01:37:17,189 --> 01:37:14,960
exception i'll give you i'll give you

2529
01:37:19,189 --> 01:37:17,199
one example that has nothing to do with

2530
01:37:22,149 --> 01:37:19,199
pop culture a friend of mine called

2531
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:22,159
cynthia hind cynthia's again sadly no

2532
01:37:26,629 --> 01:37:23,920
longer with us but cynthia was from

2533
01:37:29,109 --> 01:37:26,639
zimbabwe in africa

2534
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,119
and she not only did she researched the

2535
01:37:33,109 --> 01:37:30,800
phenomena in her own country but she

2536
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:33,119
went you know across africa

2537
01:37:36,709 --> 01:37:35,679
and she was interviewing one tribal

2538
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:36,719
chief

2539
01:37:39,350 --> 01:37:38,400
and even then when she was interviewing

2540
01:37:41,030 --> 01:37:39,360
him

2541
01:37:42,550 --> 01:37:41,040
a lot of years back now he did there was

2542
01:37:43,510 --> 01:37:42,560
no electricity

2543
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:43,520
and

2544
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:45,199
the chief reported to it he'd had this

2545
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:47,760
sighting and he saw this silver suited

2546
01:37:53,669 --> 01:37:50,880
entity so cynthia said to him well what

2547
01:37:55,750 --> 01:37:53,679
do you think this entity was chief ini

2548
01:37:57,109 --> 01:37:55,760
says well it's the spirits of our

2549
01:37:58,629 --> 01:37:57,119
ancestors

2550
01:38:00,709 --> 01:37:58,639
she says well how can it be your

2551
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:00,719
ancestors wore animal skins and a lime

2552
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:03,679
cloth and he said times change

2553
01:38:07,030 --> 01:38:04,800
you know

2554
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:07,040
and there was no influence there from

2555
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:08,880
western culture there was no close

2556
01:38:13,590 --> 01:38:11,840
encounters there was no communion and

2557
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:13,600
cynthia also made us laugh of course

2558
01:38:18,390 --> 01:38:17,040
because she the tribe i think 120 years

2559
01:38:19,510 --> 01:38:18,400
prior to that and actually being

2560
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:19,520
cannibals

2561
01:38:23,109 --> 01:38:22,000
and cynthia was a large lady

2562
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:23,119
uh

2563
01:38:27,030 --> 01:38:24,719
and she said

2564
01:38:28,790 --> 01:38:27,040
live on stage she said if they tried to

2565
01:38:31,669 --> 01:38:28,800
eat me a ticket a month you know what i

2566
01:38:34,310 --> 01:38:31,679
mean but there was no

2567
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,320
pop culture influence in this part of

2568
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:37,199
the world it's as simple as that so you

2569
01:38:42,310 --> 01:38:40,000
know whatever the ufo phenomena is

2570
01:38:43,270 --> 01:38:42,320
it's there and it can be influenced you

2571
01:38:45,669 --> 01:38:43,280
know

2572
01:38:47,669 --> 01:38:45,679
by popular culture but even if you've

2573
01:38:49,750 --> 01:38:47,679
just stripped pop culture away it is

2574
01:38:51,510 --> 01:38:49,760
still there

2575
01:38:53,750 --> 01:38:51,520
yeah yeah there is something at the core

2576
01:38:55,830 --> 01:38:53,760
of it because we have too many uh cases

2577
01:38:58,229 --> 01:38:55,840
that stretch back before

2578
01:39:00,950 --> 01:38:58,239
the advent of real technology or high

2579
01:39:02,390 --> 01:39:00,960
technology and that's why chris albeck

2580
01:39:03,270 --> 01:39:02,400
and jacques villa's book wonders in the

2581
01:39:05,109 --> 01:39:03,280
sky

2582
01:39:07,109 --> 01:39:05,119
i think is a real seminal work and very

2583
01:39:09,030 --> 01:39:07,119
important because it does demonstrate

2584
01:39:11,109 --> 01:39:09,040
that there are very very peculiar

2585
01:39:13,750 --> 01:39:11,119
accounts that go all the way back

2586
01:39:15,830 --> 01:39:13,760
hundreds even thousands of years that uh

2587
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:15,840
you know sort of again support that

2588
01:39:19,750 --> 01:39:17,199
notion that there is something

2589
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:19,760
underlined that is real and and

2590
01:39:25,350 --> 01:39:22,320
manifests in a very real way however

2591
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:25,360
maybe some of the details are of somehow

2592
01:39:33,270 --> 01:39:29,280
influenced by people's uh preconceptions

2593
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:33,280
um the the uh the vronrich case or i i

2594
01:39:37,270 --> 01:39:34,800
can't pronounce it the one in russia

2595
01:39:39,830 --> 01:39:37,280
with the the tall almost robotic looking

2596
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:39,840
humanoids that that i think is is one of

2597
01:39:44,550 --> 01:39:42,400
the better cases uh from recent uh

2598
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:44,560
decades because it

2599
01:39:49,510 --> 01:39:47,360
it's so unusual and there's no other

2600
01:39:52,229 --> 01:39:49,520
case really that i can think of that's

2601
01:39:53,830 --> 01:39:52,239
remotely like it and uh very very well

2602
01:39:56,070 --> 01:39:53,840
documented too i might add lots of

2603
01:39:57,669 --> 01:39:56,080
witnesses multiple

2604
01:40:00,390 --> 01:39:57,679
from multiple

2605
01:40:01,430 --> 01:40:00,400
perspectives or angles into the events

2606
01:40:03,109 --> 01:40:01,440
and uh

2607
01:40:04,870 --> 01:40:03,119
one of our questions is what's your

2608
01:40:06,629 --> 01:40:04,880
favorite case and i bet you that would

2609
01:40:09,189 --> 01:40:06,639
be one that would be up there what is

2610
01:40:11,109 --> 01:40:09,199
your favorite case your thing about the

2611
01:40:13,510 --> 01:40:11,119
volunize case is just just briefly

2612
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:13,520
mentioning it was released the

2613
01:40:17,669 --> 01:40:16,239
information by the official soviet press

2614
01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:17,679
agency tas

2615
01:40:20,870 --> 01:40:19,360
now when they released it

2616
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:20,880
the journalists in the in the west

2617
01:40:25,030 --> 01:40:23,280
contacted them and one of them said are

2618
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:25,040
you joking

2619
01:40:28,470 --> 01:40:26,800
and they got the typical russian

2620
01:40:31,189 --> 01:40:28,480
response we

2621
01:40:34,470 --> 01:40:31,199
don't joke that was it

2622
01:40:37,109 --> 01:40:34,480
so you had to take it seriously now it's

2623
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:37,119
difficult to say which is a favorite ufo

2624
01:40:40,550 --> 01:40:38,480
sighting you know there's one that

2625
01:40:43,669 --> 01:40:40,560
sticks well there's a few but there's

2626
01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:43,679
one that sticks in my mind a because it

2627
01:40:48,629 --> 01:40:46,000
it happened not far from where i lived

2628
01:40:50,709 --> 01:40:48,639
now my father was a coal miner all his

2629
01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:50,719
life this whole area where i live was

2630
01:40:53,990 --> 01:40:52,880
all coal mines worked in the mines all

2631
01:40:55,510 --> 01:40:54,000
his life

2632
01:40:57,910 --> 01:40:55,520
and in in

2633
01:40:59,910 --> 01:40:57,920
1981 i got a call from a lady

2634
01:41:01,270 --> 01:40:59,920
and she said you won't believe me

2635
01:41:02,310 --> 01:41:01,280
and that was the first word you wouldn't

2636
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:02,320
believe me

2637
01:41:04,950 --> 01:41:04,000
so i was like well give me a chance

2638
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,960
anyway

2639
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:06,560
myself and mark birdsall went to

2640
01:41:11,109 --> 01:41:08,560
interview this lady in a town called

2641
01:41:13,350 --> 01:41:11,119
normanton and it's a mining town she was

2642
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:13,360
the same type of person i'd grown up

2643
01:41:15,910 --> 01:41:14,400
with

2644
01:41:17,189 --> 01:41:15,920
and

2645
01:41:18,950 --> 01:41:17,199
basically

2646
01:41:20,310 --> 01:41:18,960
what was happening it was the school

2647
01:41:21,990 --> 01:41:20,320
holidays

2648
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:22,000
with four or five children out in the

2649
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:24,239
street playing a ball game

2650
01:41:28,629 --> 01:41:26,239
exact same ball game i played when i was

2651
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:28,639
that age it was a lovely sunny day the

2652
01:41:33,910 --> 01:41:30,719
ball went up in the air he saw this

2653
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:33,920
object come down at an angle stop in

2654
01:41:36,870 --> 01:41:36,000
mid-air and then slowly drop to the

2655
01:41:39,030 --> 01:41:36,880
ground

2656
01:41:40,629 --> 01:41:39,040
nearby they lived in a cul-de-sac

2657
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:40,639
and at the end of the call this out with

2658
01:41:44,629 --> 01:41:42,880
some fields and a little stream and

2659
01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:44,639
electricity pylons

2660
01:41:47,669 --> 01:41:45,440
so

2661
01:41:49,830 --> 01:41:47,679
kids running the house one more mom she

2662
01:41:51,109 --> 01:41:49,840
was just washing the dishes after lunch

2663
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:51,119
and they said there's an airplane

2664
01:41:54,950 --> 01:41:53,600
crashed so she came out she lived in an

2665
01:41:56,870 --> 01:41:54,960
elevated house which you could see

2666
01:41:59,189 --> 01:41:56,880
across these fields she says you know

2667
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:59,199
philip it looked like a mexican hat but

2668
01:42:02,629 --> 01:42:00,880
gray in color

2669
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:02,639
so she got the children

2670
01:42:06,870 --> 01:42:05,040
off they went towards this thing

2671
01:42:08,709 --> 01:42:06,880
at one point you go down a small dip and

2672
01:42:10,709 --> 01:42:08,719
they lost sight of it you come up the

2673
01:42:12,629 --> 01:42:10,719
side of the hill and there's a fence

2674
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:12,639
there and they're still at this fence

2675
01:42:18,070 --> 01:42:15,040
and now in front of this thing was three

2676
01:42:19,590 --> 01:42:18,080
uh humanoid beings all dressed in white

2677
01:42:20,790 --> 01:42:19,600
they didn't have gloves on they were

2678
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:20,800
that close you could see they had

2679
01:42:24,070 --> 01:42:21,920
mittens

2680
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:24,080
big wedge on their boots and a big visor

2681
01:42:27,590 --> 01:42:26,080
on their over their face something in

2682
01:42:29,189 --> 01:42:27,600
their hands

2683
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:29,199
the kids tried to get over the fence but

2684
01:42:32,790 --> 01:42:30,800
the mum stopped them

2685
01:42:34,550 --> 01:42:32,800
and at this point the three beings went

2686
01:42:36,550 --> 01:42:34,560
behind this object

2687
01:42:37,990 --> 01:42:36,560
rose vertically and shut off once it had

2688
01:42:39,430 --> 01:42:38,000
came

2689
01:42:40,550 --> 01:42:39,440
not only the interviewer and the

2690
01:42:41,669 --> 01:42:40,560
children

2691
01:42:43,270 --> 01:42:41,679
we even interviewed one of the

2692
01:42:45,189 --> 01:42:43,280
children's friends he didn't see it

2693
01:42:47,109 --> 01:42:45,199
because he'd gone on for lunch he came

2694
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:47,119
back and he told us of all the

2695
01:42:52,149 --> 01:42:49,360
excitement and what have you but again

2696
01:42:54,790 --> 01:42:52,159
it's not necessarily what these people

2697
01:42:57,189 --> 01:42:54,800
have to say it's the people themselves

2698
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:57,199
it's not scientific you know this lady

2699
01:43:00,790 --> 01:42:58,719
wouldn't let us take a photograph of her

2700
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:00,800
because she's got a curls in you know

2701
01:43:04,310 --> 01:43:03,040
she didn't want any publicity i you know

2702
01:43:06,229 --> 01:43:04,320
i've run the story in the local

2703
01:43:08,830 --> 01:43:06,239
newspaper but i wasn't allowed to use

2704
01:43:11,669 --> 01:43:08,840
her name or the location of where she

2705
01:43:14,470 --> 01:43:11,679
lived and there were kind of people i'd

2706
01:43:15,510 --> 01:43:14,480
grown up with and known all my life and

2707
01:43:17,030 --> 01:43:15,520
uh

2708
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:17,040
there's two yeah i have to look at it in

2709
01:43:21,070 --> 01:43:18,480
two ways either they were telling the

2710
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:21,080
truth or they were lying this was no

2711
01:43:24,629 --> 01:43:22,880
misidentification

2712
01:43:25,669 --> 01:43:24,639
and i couldn't find any reason they were

2713
01:43:27,430 --> 01:43:25,679
lying

2714
01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:27,440
therefore i accepted what they were

2715
01:43:31,030 --> 01:43:28,960
saying as the truth

2716
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:31,040
and that you know is one of the cases

2717
01:43:34,470 --> 01:43:32,880
that's always stuck in my mind i mean

2718
01:43:37,189 --> 01:43:34,480
she was as baffled as anyone was this

2719
01:43:39,109 --> 01:43:37,199
like this mrs westerman she was called

2720
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:39,119
and she expected it to be all over the

2721
01:43:42,790 --> 01:43:40,880
newspapers because it was a lovely sunny

2722
01:43:44,950 --> 01:43:42,800
day there's motorways in either

2723
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:44,960
direction it's a built-up area or it

2724
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:47,119
certainly was there with all the mines

2725
01:43:52,229 --> 01:43:49,280
but nothing not anything

2726
01:43:54,070 --> 01:43:52,239
from nobody not even neighbors you know

2727
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:54,080
so that that stands out for me and this

2728
01:43:58,470 --> 01:43:55,760
one that very few people will never have

2729
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,480
heard of happened in a small mining town

2730
01:44:02,950 --> 01:44:00,880
called normanton in west yorkshire

2731
01:44:04,070 --> 01:44:02,960
and uh it still leaves me scratching my

2732
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:04,080
head gentlemen

2733
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:07,440
yeah i can i identify with that

2734
01:44:13,030 --> 01:44:10,400
i've investigated for 10 straight years

2735
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:13,040
in the san luis valley in colorado which

2736
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:14,880
again is one of your window areas or

2737
01:44:20,709 --> 01:44:17,520
gateway areas portal areas

2738
01:44:22,470 --> 01:44:20,719
just incredible variety and at times

2739
01:44:24,790 --> 01:44:22,480
intensity of activity that ebbed and

2740
01:44:25,990 --> 01:44:24,800
flowed of real

2741
01:44:27,750 --> 01:44:26,000
uh

2742
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:27,760
pretty hardcore for

2743
01:44:31,430 --> 01:44:30,480
six years out of those 10 years where

2744
01:44:33,910 --> 01:44:31,440
i was

2745
01:44:35,109 --> 01:44:33,920
put 300 000 miles on my truck in uh in

2746
01:44:38,390 --> 01:44:35,119
six years

2747
01:44:39,669 --> 01:44:38,400
and you know i'm wondering if there's uh

2748
01:44:42,550 --> 01:44:39,679
if there's a reason for that have you

2749
01:44:44,070 --> 01:44:42,560
ever figured out why certain areas or do

2750
01:44:46,390 --> 01:44:44,080
you have any theories

2751
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:46,400
on why certain areas have

2752
01:44:50,709 --> 01:44:48,719
uh unusual events that seem to cluster

2753
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:50,719
there and there seems to be a variety

2754
01:44:55,109 --> 01:44:53,280
intensity of these uh events uh in these

2755
01:44:58,229 --> 01:44:55,119
areas so any theories

2756
01:45:00,229 --> 01:44:58,239
let's go into the so-called window areas

2757
01:45:02,550 --> 01:45:00,239
areas that seem to attract an unusual

2758
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:02,560
amount of paranormal activity in our

2759
01:45:07,109 --> 01:45:04,560
next segment this will give you a chance

2760
01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:07,119
to take a quick breather or if you're a

2761
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:08,880
member of the powercast plus it'll all

2762
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:11,119
happen in about 10 seconds or so

2763
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:14,840
remember go to plus.thepowercast.com

2764
01:45:19,189 --> 01:45:16,560
plus.powercast.com

2765
01:45:21,030 --> 01:45:19,199
to learn how to get after the power cast

2766
01:45:22,709 --> 01:45:21,040
and all the other great features we have

2767
01:45:24,709 --> 01:45:22,719
philip mantle who's going to answer that

2768
01:45:27,189 --> 01:45:24,719
question about areas that seem to

2769
01:45:29,669 --> 01:45:27,199
attract unusual amounts of strange

2770
01:45:39,030 --> 01:45:29,679
activity with gene and chris you're in

2771
01:45:47,590 --> 01:45:42,229
thank you for listening to gcn

2772
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:49,669
attack of the rockoids has been well

2773
01:45:53,590 --> 01:45:52,000
received by critics and readers alike

2774
01:45:54,950 --> 01:45:53,600
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

2775
01:45:56,870 --> 01:45:54,960
never forget

2776
01:45:59,350 --> 01:45:56,880
a former us military intelligence

2777
01:46:01,910 --> 01:45:59,360
officer is haunted by intense dreams

2778
01:46:04,310 --> 01:46:01,920
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

2779
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:04,320
help after a terrible battle in outer

2780
01:46:07,510 --> 01:46:05,360
space

2781
01:46:09,510 --> 01:46:07,520
but the dreams turn out to be true and

2782
01:46:12,229 --> 01:46:09,520
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

2783
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:12,239
with a woman whose far away planet is

2784
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,639
intent on destroying the earth

2785
01:46:19,590 --> 01:46:17,119
and now the gripping tale continues in

2786
01:46:22,149 --> 01:46:19,600
the coming of the protectors it's the

2787
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:22,159
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

2788
01:46:26,629 --> 01:46:24,400
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

2789
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hapless heroes against powerful

2790
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fanatical enemies that threaten the

2791
01:46:31,990 --> 01:46:30,800
lives of freedom-loving beings

2792
01:46:34,629 --> 01:46:32,000
everywhere

2793
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attack of the rochoids and the coming of

2794
01:46:40,550 --> 01:46:37,679
the protectors classic science fiction

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at its best available now for more

2796
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details visit rockoids.com that's rock

2797
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2798
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like your computer or phone hackers can

2799
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2800
01:47:00,310 --> 01:46:58,000
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2801
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2802
01:47:04,709 --> 01:47:02,400
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2803
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these hacks in their tracks protect one

2804
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2805
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2806
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2807
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hackproofbag.com and use promo code

2808
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2809
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2810
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2811
01:47:24,870 --> 01:47:24,080
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2812
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2813
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2814
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2815
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2816
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2817
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2818
01:47:36,070 --> 01:47:34,880
compensation xarelto is a popular

2819
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:36,080
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2820
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prevent blood clots and protect patients

2821
01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:39,119
from strokes these serious bleeding

2822
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:40,560
events have led to numerous cases of

2823
01:47:46,070 --> 01:47:42,320
hospitalization and even death phone

2824
01:47:51,560 --> 01:47:46,080
lines are open 24 7. call 800-261-0-937

2825
01:47:59,510 --> 01:47:56,310
[Applause]

2826
01:48:03,189 --> 01:47:59,520
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2827
01:48:04,470 --> 01:48:03,199
standard of paranormal radio

2828
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:04,480
and now

2829
01:48:11,590 --> 01:48:07,770
here's gene steinberg

2830
01:48:15,830 --> 01:48:13,750
in response to that question about

2831
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:15,840
window areas portals whatever you want

2832
01:48:19,510 --> 01:48:16,960
to call it

2833
01:48:21,990 --> 01:48:19,520
philip mantle yeah i mean there was a

2834
01:48:23,990 --> 01:48:22,000
colleague of mine called albert budden

2835
01:48:26,390 --> 01:48:24,000
and albert you know lifting worked in

2836
01:48:28,629 --> 01:48:26,400
london he was a science teacher

2837
01:48:30,070 --> 01:48:28,639
albert did a lot of research into this

2838
01:48:33,030 --> 01:48:30,080
particular area i'm not saying he's

2839
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:33,040
right i'm not saying he's wrong but what

2840
01:48:36,790 --> 01:48:34,880
albert eventually came up with after

2841
01:48:37,510 --> 01:48:36,800
many years of study and i'm talking you

2842
01:48:41,030 --> 01:48:37,520
know

2843
01:48:42,390 --> 01:48:41,040
sat behind the desk

2844
01:48:44,470 --> 01:48:42,400
was that

2845
01:48:45,470 --> 01:48:44,480
areas in the ground

2846
01:48:47,669 --> 01:48:45,480
giving off an

2847
01:48:49,910 --> 01:48:47,679
electromagnetic discharge

2848
01:48:51,830 --> 01:48:49,920
and these can be areas where there's

2849
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:51,840
uh fault lines

2850
01:48:55,030 --> 01:48:53,280
large bodies of water that puts the

2851
01:48:56,950 --> 01:48:55,040
earth under pressure and so on and

2852
01:48:59,430 --> 01:48:56,960
there's also now man-made ones like you

2853
01:49:01,189 --> 01:48:59,440
know mobile phone masks and so on and

2854
01:49:02,629 --> 01:49:01,199
that if you are

2855
01:49:04,470 --> 01:49:02,639
this is the simplest way i can put it

2856
01:49:08,310 --> 01:49:04,480
because i'm not a scientist if you are

2857
01:49:10,629 --> 01:49:08,320
allergic to these electromagnetic forces

2858
01:49:12,550 --> 01:49:10,639
then if you step into them and they're

2859
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:12,560
not always there all the time

2860
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:14,880
then you can have what i would call a

2861
01:49:20,149 --> 01:49:17,920
paranormal experience and that's why

2862
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:20,159
in these areas you get a whole host of

2863
01:49:24,229 --> 01:49:22,320
things you get you know your ufo

2864
01:49:27,109 --> 01:49:24,239
sightings you get the ghost dogs the

2865
01:49:29,510 --> 01:49:27,119
phantom dogs whatever all in one area

2866
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:29,520
where it is naturally produced or

2867
01:49:33,030 --> 01:49:30,800
man-made

2868
01:49:35,109 --> 01:49:33,040
so it's not anything it's there and

2869
01:49:37,830 --> 01:49:35,119
that's why it would explain why these

2870
01:49:40,470 --> 01:49:37,840
experiences seem to take place in these

2871
01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:40,480
areas down the decades and they have

2872
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:42,400
peaks and troughs because the

2873
01:49:47,590 --> 01:49:44,800
electromagnetic forces have peaks and

2874
01:49:49,510 --> 01:49:47,600
troughs to go with it and that's why you

2875
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:49,520
know 100 years ago they would describe

2876
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:52,320
it as you know the elves or whatever but

2877
01:49:56,310 --> 01:49:54,400
today we call it the aliens

2878
01:49:58,390 --> 01:49:56,320
it's an interesting theory in

2879
01:50:01,669 --> 01:49:58,400
conjunction with that albert claims that

2880
01:50:02,709 --> 01:50:01,679
where these forces can be naturally uh

2881
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:02,719
made

2882
01:50:05,669 --> 01:50:04,480
they can give off a ball of light a ball

2883
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:05,679
of plasma

2884
01:50:10,310 --> 01:50:08,239
again these are electrically charged and

2885
01:50:13,350 --> 01:50:10,320
if you get too close to them they're now

2886
01:50:15,830 --> 01:50:13,360
called uaps unidentified atmospheric

2887
01:50:18,790 --> 01:50:15,840
phenomena they can for one of a better

2888
01:50:21,669 --> 01:50:18,800
word create in your head an illusion but

2889
01:50:23,750 --> 01:50:21,679
you to you it's all intents and purposes

2890
01:50:26,390 --> 01:50:23,760
it's real but of course your culture

2891
01:50:28,229 --> 01:50:26,400
will decide what that reality is hence

2892
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,239
all the different types of aliens hence

2893
01:50:32,870 --> 01:50:30,400
all the different types of experiences

2894
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:32,880
hence why the gentleman's question asks

2895
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:34,400
why don't these don't get many of these

2896
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:36,320
accounts nowadays perhaps within more of

2897
01:50:40,310 --> 01:50:38,239
those troughs and it's it's a

2898
01:50:42,629 --> 01:50:40,320
fascinating way to look at it it really

2899
01:50:45,030 --> 01:50:42,639
is and again albert wrote a couple of

2900
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:45,040
books about it i have them here uh i

2901
01:50:49,990 --> 01:50:47,920
would recommend them also paul darrell

2902
01:50:51,830 --> 01:50:50,000
uh his earthlights books they're

2903
01:50:54,790 --> 01:50:51,840
certainly worth a read

2904
01:50:57,030 --> 01:50:54,800
and it offers a possible explanation but

2905
01:50:59,990 --> 01:50:57,040
people tend to dismiss it because it's

2906
01:51:01,830 --> 01:51:00,000
not as exotic as aliens from space it is

2907
01:51:03,830 --> 01:51:01,840
something that's you know right under

2908
01:51:05,910 --> 01:51:03,840
our feet quite literally or could be

2909
01:51:08,070 --> 01:51:05,920
again you know it's just a possibility

2910
01:51:10,550 --> 01:51:08,080
it makes a lot of sense to me it's john

2911
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:10,560
that's just one man's research and there

2912
01:51:14,229 --> 01:51:12,320
may be others that have looked into this

2913
01:51:15,669 --> 01:51:14,239
that i'm not aware of what do you guys

2914
01:51:17,830 --> 01:51:15,679
think do you think there's any

2915
01:51:20,229 --> 01:51:17,840
any way of accepting that kind of idea

2916
01:51:23,590 --> 01:51:20,239
absolutely i've kind of come up with my

2917
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:23,600
own formula that combines unusual

2918
01:51:27,189 --> 01:51:26,320
geophysical properties with a tradition

2919
01:51:29,109 --> 01:51:27,199
of

2920
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:29,119
strangeness that goes back in

2921
01:51:33,350 --> 01:51:30,719
generations

2922
01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:33,360
and oftentimes a military

2923
01:51:38,709 --> 01:51:35,520
interest in the area some sort of

2924
01:51:41,030 --> 01:51:38,719
military presence an especially hot spot

2925
01:51:43,510 --> 01:51:41,040
area a hotter hot spot area that are

2926
01:51:45,270 --> 01:51:43,520
trying to expand their their presence

2927
01:51:47,589 --> 01:51:45,280
you know i find if an area has these

2928
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:47,599
four or five elements in it that chances

2929
01:51:51,669 --> 01:51:49,840
are you've uh you've got a place that's

2930
01:51:53,910 --> 01:51:51,679
that's uh right for

2931
01:51:56,229 --> 01:51:53,920
for investigation and uh the san luis

2932
01:51:58,950 --> 01:51:56,239
valley has all those things as one of

2933
01:52:02,470 --> 01:51:58,960
the largest rift valleys in the world

2934
01:52:03,669 --> 01:52:02,480
there's alternating clay and water

2935
01:52:05,030 --> 01:52:03,679
underground

2936
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:05,040
which create

2937
01:52:08,470 --> 01:52:06,719
gravitic lows

2938
01:52:10,950 --> 01:52:08,480
there's minimum and maximum field

2939
01:52:13,750 --> 01:52:10,960
strength magnetic anomalies that are in

2940
01:52:15,189 --> 01:52:13,760
close proximity to one another

2941
01:52:16,390 --> 01:52:15,199
these are all elements i think if you

2942
01:52:18,149 --> 01:52:16,400
combine them

2943
01:52:19,109 --> 01:52:18,159
you find a place that has all these

2944
01:52:22,149 --> 01:52:19,119
elements

2945
01:52:25,430 --> 01:52:22,159
you'll have a rich tradition a cultural

2946
01:52:26,709 --> 01:52:25,440
tradition of or subcultural tradition of

2947
01:52:31,430 --> 01:52:26,719
strange

2948
01:52:33,750 --> 01:52:31,440
and indigenous people will have sacred

2949
01:52:36,229 --> 01:52:33,760
sites in these areas and tend to

2950
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:36,239
you'll you'll find evidence of

2951
01:52:42,070 --> 01:52:39,360
of some sort of worship or

2952
01:52:43,510 --> 01:52:42,080
reverence for these areas by indigenous

2953
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:43,520
people either

2954
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:45,520
existing today or and then all the way

2955
01:52:51,430 --> 01:52:49,199
back into uh into prehistory so i i i

2956
01:52:52,629 --> 01:52:51,440
agree and i think that not enough work

2957
01:52:55,430 --> 01:52:52,639
has been done

2958
01:52:56,870 --> 01:52:55,440
uh to really examine the effect of these

2959
01:52:59,510 --> 01:52:56,880
types of uh

2960
01:53:01,910 --> 01:52:59,520
geophysical energy

2961
01:53:05,589 --> 01:53:01,920
properties on the human brain

2962
01:53:07,830 --> 01:53:05,599
michael persinger in canada has uh

2963
01:53:10,310 --> 01:53:07,840
what's called the god helmet which

2964
01:53:14,229 --> 01:53:10,320
sort of is a device that

2965
01:53:16,629 --> 01:53:14,239
is able to elicit um strange

2966
01:53:19,910 --> 01:53:16,639
effects in the uh the person wearing it

2967
01:53:22,310 --> 01:53:19,920
and uh i think he's he's taking uh your

2968
01:53:24,229 --> 01:53:22,320
your scientist and and deborah one step

2969
01:53:26,229 --> 01:53:24,239
further and actually coming up with

2970
01:53:28,470 --> 01:53:26,239
technology that attempts to duplicate or

2971
01:53:30,550 --> 01:53:28,480
mimic uh these types of

2972
01:53:32,790 --> 01:53:30,560
of psychological effects

2973
01:53:35,510 --> 01:53:32,800
so i i that's an area you're right that

2974
01:53:37,350 --> 01:53:35,520
we aren't doing enough uh research and

2975
01:53:39,589 --> 01:53:37,360
and uh thinking about you know we talk

2976
01:53:41,510 --> 01:53:39,599
about the indigenous people and whatever

2977
01:53:43,510 --> 01:53:41,520
you're here in the uk of course you know

2978
01:53:45,270 --> 01:53:43,520
we've got all the stone circles which

2979
01:53:48,070 --> 01:53:45,280
some people talk about these energies

2980
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:48,080
coming from these the you know so it

2981
01:53:51,910 --> 01:53:50,159
it's as simple as that you know i've

2982
01:53:54,629 --> 01:53:51,920
seen persinger's work and it it's

2983
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:54,639
absolutely fascinating and like he said

2984
01:53:59,669 --> 01:53:57,440
these that things go down decades and

2985
01:54:01,830 --> 01:53:59,679
there can be a military interest now

2986
01:54:04,310 --> 01:54:01,840
our ministry defense supposedly released

2987
01:54:06,229 --> 01:54:04,320
all their ufo files in amongst that

2988
01:54:08,870 --> 01:54:06,239
there was a release called the conduct

2989
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:08,880
report and it was a report that the mod

2990
01:54:13,589 --> 01:54:10,719
themselves had commissioned that it was

2991
01:54:16,149 --> 01:54:13,599
looking at what they called uap's

2992
01:54:18,390 --> 01:54:16,159
unidentified atmospheric phenomena it's

2993
01:54:20,550 --> 01:54:18,400
an official government study you can get

2994
01:54:22,070 --> 01:54:20,560
it online and they were looking at these

2995
01:54:25,030 --> 01:54:22,080
things to see if they were a form of

2996
01:54:27,030 --> 01:54:25,040
energy whether they could have a

2997
01:54:29,910 --> 01:54:27,040
incorrect effect on

2998
01:54:31,430 --> 01:54:29,920
vehicles airplanes engines that kind of

2999
01:54:33,109 --> 01:54:31,440
thing in other words cause them to

3000
01:54:35,350 --> 01:54:33,119
malfunction because we all know there's

3001
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:35,360
been cases car stops and all that kind

3002
01:54:39,109 --> 01:54:36,960
of thing there seems to be an outside

3003
01:54:41,109 --> 01:54:39,119
influence and that's an official mod

3004
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:41,119
research so they were looking at it so

3005
01:54:45,109 --> 01:54:43,280
it wouldn't surprise me that if in other

3006
01:54:47,109 --> 01:54:45,119
areas around the world like the one you

3007
01:54:49,189 --> 01:54:47,119
just mentioned you know also had a

3008
01:54:51,270 --> 01:54:49,199
military interest they're trying to get

3009
01:54:52,790 --> 01:54:51,280
a grasp on this but as yet they've not

3010
01:54:55,589 --> 01:54:52,800
managed to do so

3011
01:54:57,270 --> 01:54:55,599
when i hear you and chris talk about

3012
01:54:59,430 --> 01:54:57,280
peculiar

3013
01:55:02,470 --> 01:54:59,440
situations an area that attracts all

3014
01:55:04,470 --> 01:55:02,480
this activity and that people have more

3015
01:55:06,870 --> 01:55:04,480
of a tendency to see something

3016
01:55:10,310 --> 01:55:06,880
that conveys the image that this is

3017
01:55:12,149 --> 01:55:10,320
being a skeptical i suppose the image

3018
01:55:14,950 --> 01:55:12,159
this is really not something that may

3019
01:55:16,950 --> 01:55:14,960
have even an external reality but that

3020
01:55:18,629 --> 01:55:16,960
we're seeing things and the atmospheric

3021
01:55:20,870 --> 01:55:18,639
or surface conditions may make it

3022
01:55:23,109 --> 01:55:20,880
possible for us to see things that

3023
01:55:24,310 --> 01:55:23,119
really aren't there have no external

3024
01:55:26,310 --> 01:55:24,320
reality

3025
01:55:27,990 --> 01:55:26,320
or maybe it's just making us sensitive

3026
01:55:29,669 --> 01:55:28,000
to such things

3027
01:55:31,669 --> 01:55:29,679
how do we separate the real from the

3028
01:55:32,550 --> 01:55:31,679
possible fantasy element chris and

3029
01:55:34,310 --> 01:55:32,560
philip

3030
01:55:36,629 --> 01:55:34,320
i wouldn't call it a fantasy because i

3031
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:36,639
think that's the incorrect term to use

3032
01:55:42,629 --> 01:55:40,080
is a real experience it's not a fantasy

3033
01:55:45,030 --> 01:55:42,639
and these areas don't attract phenomena

3034
01:55:47,830 --> 01:55:45,040
these areas actually create it and it

3035
01:55:49,510 --> 01:55:47,840
and there could be an external um

3036
01:55:51,910 --> 01:55:49,520
part to it like the balls of light that

3037
01:55:53,510 --> 01:55:51,920
have said that you know but some people

3038
01:55:54,870 --> 01:55:53,520
think oh these balls are live and i've

3039
01:55:57,270 --> 01:55:54,880
seen close up

3040
01:55:58,950 --> 01:55:57,280
uh there's some kind of intelligence um

3041
01:56:00,390 --> 01:55:58,960
connected to them well i think the only

3042
01:56:01,750 --> 01:56:00,400
intelligence connected to them is

3043
01:56:04,870 --> 01:56:01,760
actually you

3044
01:56:08,070 --> 01:56:04,880
but nonetheless they are physically real

3045
01:56:10,310 --> 01:56:08,080
it's not a fantasy uh it's like saying i

3046
01:56:12,310 --> 01:56:10,320
don't condone this a friend of mine you

3047
01:56:13,669 --> 01:56:12,320
know way back when i had an experience

3048
01:56:16,229 --> 01:56:13,679
in

3049
01:56:18,629 --> 01:56:16,239
and he said philip i sat here one day

3050
01:56:20,229 --> 01:56:18,639
and i had a conversation with the devil

3051
01:56:22,950 --> 01:56:20,239
he was sat in the chair next to me and

3052
01:56:24,629 --> 01:56:22,960
he was as real to me as you are now and

3053
01:56:27,990 --> 01:56:24,639
that was drugging used he knew what he

3054
01:56:30,790 --> 01:56:28,000
was doing but um but it wasn't a fantasy

3055
01:56:32,870 --> 01:56:30,800
so quality phantom fantasy is not the

3056
01:56:36,229 --> 01:56:32,880
way to look at it you look at this as a

3057
01:56:39,189 --> 01:56:36,239
bona fide experience that may

3058
01:56:41,430 --> 01:56:39,199
take place in inner space

3059
01:56:43,510 --> 01:56:41,440
rather than outer space so what did the

3060
01:56:45,589 --> 01:56:43,520
devil tell him did he end up becoming a

3061
01:56:47,910 --> 01:56:45,599
born-again christian no no he's settling

3062
01:56:49,510 --> 01:56:47,920
on a nice chat with him you know and it

3063
01:56:51,910 --> 01:56:49,520
wasn't the fact of what the devil told

3064
01:56:54,390 --> 01:56:51,920
him it was the fact that he reacted and

3065
01:56:56,950 --> 01:56:54,400
all his senses reacted as if there was a

3066
01:56:59,109 --> 01:56:56,960
physical being sat in that chair next to

3067
01:57:01,589 --> 01:56:59,119
it well of course there wasn't there was

3068
01:57:03,669 --> 01:57:01,599
nobody there but he said he was as real

3069
01:57:05,910 --> 01:57:03,679
to me philip as you are

3070
01:57:08,470 --> 01:57:05,920
and i've seen that on other subjects on

3071
01:57:09,669 --> 01:57:08,480
tv under the influence of hypnosis for

3072
01:57:10,390 --> 01:57:09,679
example

3073
01:57:12,149 --> 01:57:10,400
so

3074
01:57:14,709 --> 01:57:12,159
you know it's an altered state of

3075
01:57:18,149 --> 01:57:14,719
consciousness perhaps it's another realm

3076
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:18,159
of reality perhaps but the cause lies

3077
01:57:23,109 --> 01:57:20,400
beneath our feet and what's between our

3078
01:57:25,750 --> 01:57:23,119
ears and not from the heavens above it's

3079
01:57:27,830 --> 01:57:25,760
it's a plausible nation

3080
01:57:29,750 --> 01:57:27,840
we should also you know accept it it is

3081
01:57:30,870 --> 01:57:29,760
just one different way of looking at the

3082
01:57:32,870 --> 01:57:30,880
phenomena

3083
01:57:34,390 --> 01:57:32,880
we have to break here sir

3084
01:57:36,390 --> 01:57:34,400
philip mantle we're looking at the

3085
01:57:38,550 --> 01:57:36,400
reality behind all these events and what

3086
01:57:47,030 --> 01:57:38,560
that might be with gene and chris you're

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3189
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3190
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:55,199
comment or question about the paracast

3191
02:02:01,990 --> 02:01:58,800
send it to news at theparacast.com

3192
02:02:03,830 --> 02:02:02,000
that's news at the paracast.com

3193
02:02:06,310 --> 02:02:03,840
and don't forget to visit our famous

3194
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paracast community forums at

3195
02:02:16,550 --> 02:02:13,910
we have the aggressive chris o'brien

3196
02:02:19,270 --> 02:02:16,560
right there that was my devil voice aha

3197
02:02:20,950 --> 02:02:19,280
an aggressive devil

3198
02:02:24,310 --> 02:02:20,960
i'd like to add something to what philip

3199
02:02:26,790 --> 02:02:24,320
was saying about manifesting phenomenon

3200
02:02:29,030 --> 02:02:26,800
um with a catalyst of being some sort of

3201
02:02:31,430 --> 02:02:29,040
geophysical properties of a particular

3202
02:02:33,669 --> 02:02:31,440
location now you do have cases that have

3203
02:02:36,070 --> 02:02:33,679
trace evidence which would indicate that

3204
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:36,080
something is in theory something is

3205
02:02:39,109 --> 02:02:37,920
physically manifesting and leaving

3206
02:02:41,510 --> 02:02:39,119
evidence

3207
02:02:43,750 --> 02:02:41,520
of its manifestation behind

3208
02:02:47,189 --> 02:02:43,760
um there are cases where people see the

3209
02:02:49,109 --> 02:02:47,199
same apparent event that are many miles

3210
02:02:51,589 --> 02:02:49,119
away that that would

3211
02:02:53,750 --> 02:02:51,599
in theory not be let's say in close

3212
02:02:55,830 --> 02:02:53,760
proximity to the type of

3213
02:02:58,950 --> 02:02:55,840
properties that would be eliciting some

3214
02:03:00,629 --> 02:02:58,960
sort of of event in a person's mind who

3215
02:03:02,709 --> 02:03:00,639
may be closer

3216
02:03:03,910 --> 02:03:02,719
and be like a primary witness

3217
02:03:07,270 --> 02:03:03,920
i've had

3218
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:07,280
a series of ufos that appeared

3219
02:03:11,910 --> 02:03:09,280
on one night because they were flying

3220
02:03:15,589 --> 02:03:11,920
fairly high but large quite a number of

3221
02:03:18,629 --> 02:03:15,599
people saw them and i got 17 reports

3222
02:03:20,550 --> 02:03:18,639
from as far as 70 miles away of the

3223
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:20,560
primary witness who would seem to be

3224
02:03:24,790 --> 02:03:22,800
right underneath the event there are

3225
02:03:28,390 --> 02:03:24,800
cases that don't quite

3226
02:03:30,070 --> 02:03:28,400
fall into a blanket explanation

3227
02:03:31,589 --> 02:03:30,080
like that that's not to say that that

3228
02:03:33,109 --> 02:03:31,599
that explanation

3229
02:03:35,750 --> 02:03:33,119
couldn't account for you know the

3230
02:03:38,149 --> 02:03:35,760
explanation of manifesting uh

3231
02:03:40,950 --> 02:03:38,159
real events psychologically it doesn't

3232
02:03:43,750 --> 02:03:40,960
doesn't mean that that particular theory

3233
02:03:45,830 --> 02:03:43,760
is not behind a number or quite possibly

3234
02:03:47,669 --> 02:03:45,840
quite a large number of

3235
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:47,679
personal experiences but there are those

3236
02:03:52,390 --> 02:03:49,840
cases that people are not in close

3237
02:03:55,350 --> 02:03:52,400
proximity to a particular area or

3238
02:03:57,510 --> 02:03:55,360
outside of that area that are seeing

3239
02:03:59,270 --> 02:03:57,520
what seems to be the same thing i had 17

3240
02:04:01,830 --> 02:03:59,280
reports in one night

3241
02:04:03,669 --> 02:04:01,840
of a series of uh events uh there's

3242
02:04:05,750 --> 02:04:03,679
three to five depending on how you want

3243
02:04:06,709 --> 02:04:05,760
to count them because two of them joined

3244
02:04:09,830 --> 02:04:06,719
together

3245
02:04:11,510 --> 02:04:09,840
so you know we we do have that kind of

3246
02:04:14,390 --> 02:04:11,520
wrinkle in the theory

3247
02:04:16,390 --> 02:04:14,400
but i agree that we need to do more

3248
02:04:17,270 --> 02:04:16,400
cutting edge research into these uh

3249
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:17,280
these

3250
02:04:20,709 --> 02:04:18,960
hypotheticals and

3251
02:04:23,109 --> 02:04:20,719
and really really take it to the next

3252
02:04:24,790 --> 02:04:23,119
level yeah you know we've got a couple

3253
02:04:27,109 --> 02:04:24,800
of questions here that i want to cover

3254
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:27,119
then i'd like to get in into

3255
02:04:31,430 --> 02:04:29,840
some theorizing on your part of where we

3256
02:04:33,669 --> 02:04:31,440
should take this uh realm of

3257
02:04:35,270 --> 02:04:33,679
investigation and and whether it's even

3258
02:04:38,070 --> 02:04:35,280
going to survive

3259
02:04:39,510 --> 02:04:38,080
the passing of the the older generation

3260
02:04:41,510 --> 02:04:39,520
passing the torch onto the new

3261
02:04:43,910 --> 02:04:41,520
generation first of all we have a

3262
02:04:48,310 --> 02:04:43,920
question from greer's meeting planner

3263
02:04:53,589 --> 02:04:51,510
okay anyway sometimes i amuse myself

3264
02:04:55,510 --> 02:04:53,599
anyway greer's meeting planner is very

3265
02:04:57,270 --> 02:04:55,520
interested to know

3266
02:04:58,709 --> 02:04:57,280
what your thoughts are and what your

3267
02:04:59,910 --> 02:04:58,719
opinions on what happened at the

3268
02:05:01,910 --> 02:04:59,920
bentwater's

3269
02:05:03,589 --> 02:05:01,920
december 1980 case

3270
02:05:06,149 --> 02:05:03,599
and he's wondering if we have enough

3271
02:05:07,750 --> 02:05:06,159
data on this case to even make a robust

3272
02:05:10,550 --> 02:05:07,760
hypothesis

3273
02:05:12,550 --> 02:05:10,560
again a great question and well-timed of

3274
02:05:13,830 --> 02:05:12,560
course because the event took place in

3275
02:05:15,510 --> 02:05:13,840
december

3276
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:15,520
uh 1980

3277
02:05:20,950 --> 02:05:18,480
and and just as lookers had it today i

3278
02:05:23,109 --> 02:05:20,960
wrote an article for a small magazine

3279
02:05:25,350 --> 02:05:23,119
called the outer limits magazine you can

3280
02:05:28,229 --> 02:05:25,360
find it online i interviewed a chap who

3281
02:05:30,470 --> 02:05:28,239
was at bent waters at the time it was

3282
02:05:32,550 --> 02:05:30,480
united states military and he hadn't

3283
02:05:34,629 --> 02:05:32,560
gone on the record before his name was

3284
02:05:37,030 --> 02:05:34,639
this was steve i have his full name in

3285
02:05:39,270 --> 02:05:37,040
the article and he confirmed some things

3286
02:05:41,430 --> 02:05:39,280
that other people had said you know and

3287
02:05:43,830 --> 02:05:41,440
confirmed that it was a nuclear facility

3288
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:43,840
the one problem with bent waters

3289
02:05:50,629 --> 02:05:47,360
like many other well-known cases roswell

3290
02:05:53,030 --> 02:05:50,639
is a prime example it tends to evolve if

3291
02:05:55,990 --> 02:05:53,040
you go back and look at the events that

3292
02:05:59,510 --> 02:05:56,000
happened at dead waters in 1980 december

3293
02:06:01,589 --> 02:05:59,520
26 we had reports of some lights

3294
02:06:05,189 --> 02:06:01,599
in rentals and forest there's two air

3295
02:06:07,669 --> 02:06:05,199
bases both american and in between is is

3296
02:06:09,430 --> 02:06:07,679
common land which is the forest well you

3297
02:06:11,669 --> 02:06:09,440
know that's for those that don't know

3298
02:06:13,669 --> 02:06:11,679
security guards were sent to dispatch

3299
02:06:16,470 --> 02:06:13,679
and have a look at these lights

3300
02:06:18,470 --> 02:06:16,480
jumping right up to today it has evolved

3301
02:06:21,350 --> 02:06:18,480
from a simple sighting of some strange

3302
02:06:24,149 --> 02:06:21,360
lights in the forest to a time machine

3303
02:06:26,149 --> 02:06:24,159
from the future you know our future it

3304
02:06:27,910 --> 02:06:26,159
was also it had broken down and wanted

3305
02:06:30,229 --> 02:06:27,920
fixing or whatever what happened in

3306
02:06:31,910 --> 02:06:30,239
between it's grown and grown and grown

3307
02:06:33,750 --> 02:06:31,920
and the same with roswell started off

3308
02:06:36,390 --> 02:06:33,760
with some funny looking stuff on this

3309
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:36,400
farm in a spanish's land

3310
02:06:42,149 --> 02:06:38,800
in no time became the cosmic cover-up i

3311
02:06:44,629 --> 02:06:42,159
mean it just evolves as the years go by

3312
02:06:46,310 --> 02:06:44,639
difference is with rendelsham

3313
02:06:48,990 --> 02:06:46,320
most of the people if not all of them

3314
02:06:51,430 --> 02:06:49,000
that were actually there are still alive

3315
02:06:53,990 --> 02:06:51,440
unfortunately you know as we know that

3316
02:06:56,229 --> 02:06:54,000
you know sometimes confabulation takes

3317
02:06:58,550 --> 02:06:56,239
place thankfully the chap i've just

3318
02:07:00,149 --> 02:06:58,560
interviewed steve he would have the

3319
02:07:01,430 --> 02:07:00,159
sense just when i asked him questions

3320
02:07:03,030 --> 02:07:01,440
that he didn't know the answer to he

3321
02:07:05,030 --> 02:07:03,040
said i don't know and when he couldn't

3322
02:07:06,390 --> 02:07:05,040
remember somebody's name precisely it

3323
02:07:08,310 --> 02:07:06,400
would say well i think it was something

3324
02:07:10,950 --> 02:07:08,320
but don't you know i'm not entirely sure

3325
02:07:13,430 --> 02:07:10,960
of that to make a definitive conclusion

3326
02:07:16,069 --> 02:07:13,440
if you like about what happened at begs

3327
02:07:18,550 --> 02:07:16,079
waters or endless forest is more

3328
02:07:20,629 --> 02:07:18,560
difficult than one would imagine for

3329
02:07:22,790 --> 02:07:20,639
example when you speak to jim penniston

3330
02:07:24,629 --> 02:07:22,800
who was one of the it was a sergeant at

3331
02:07:27,189 --> 02:07:24,639
the time he was there one of the primary

3332
02:07:29,669 --> 02:07:27,199
witnesses and i have no doubt that jim

3333
02:07:31,030 --> 02:07:29,679
was there and had an unusual experience

3334
02:07:33,030 --> 02:07:31,040
but you asked a simple question well

3335
02:07:34,390 --> 02:07:33,040
what did you first think it was oh we

3336
02:07:36,550 --> 02:07:34,400
thought it was an airplane that had

3337
02:07:38,550 --> 02:07:36,560
crashed why weren't the emergency

3338
02:07:39,990 --> 02:07:38,560
services called it seems a reasonable

3339
02:07:41,669 --> 02:07:40,000
question if they shot an airplane who

3340
02:07:44,310 --> 02:07:41,679
crashed in the woods wouldn't you call

3341
02:07:45,990 --> 02:07:44,320
the ambulance or your own on base

3342
02:07:47,750 --> 02:07:46,000
medical facilities

3343
02:07:49,990 --> 02:07:47,760
i don't know it's simple things like

3344
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:50,000
that that it doesn't necessarily add up

3345
02:07:53,510 --> 02:07:51,679
to any amount of information but they

3346
02:07:54,950 --> 02:07:53,520
puzzle me are you also had the police

3347
02:07:56,629 --> 02:07:54,960
officers turned up that night as well

3348
02:07:58,310 --> 02:07:56,639
they were phoned i think you didn't make

3349
02:07:59,430 --> 02:07:58,320
anything of it you know whatever

3350
02:08:00,870 --> 02:07:59,440
happened to god they looked at these

3351
02:08:02,790 --> 02:08:00,880
marks on the ground they thought they

3352
02:08:04,790 --> 02:08:02,800
were made by rabbits so there was a

3353
02:08:06,550 --> 02:08:04,800
different opinion of even the ground

3354
02:08:08,470 --> 02:08:06,560
traces that were left behind that night

3355
02:08:10,310 --> 02:08:08,480
but i'll give you another example a tv

3356
02:08:12,149 --> 02:08:10,320
show that was done here a few years back

3357
02:08:14,069 --> 02:08:12,159
it was like a discussion panel show

3358
02:08:16,550 --> 02:08:14,079
about ufos a place photograph on the

3359
02:08:18,950 --> 02:08:16,560
screen and they said this location at

3360
02:08:21,510 --> 02:08:18,960
this time anybody else that saw it could

3361
02:08:23,990 --> 02:08:21,520
you please ring it at the end of the the

3362
02:08:25,990 --> 02:08:24,000
program they said we had 30 some people

3363
02:08:27,910 --> 02:08:26,000
phoning saying they'd seen the same

3364
02:08:30,149 --> 02:08:27,920
thing however no they didn't because

3365
02:08:32,310 --> 02:08:30,159
it's a fake we made it but yeah people

3366
02:08:34,550 --> 02:08:32,320
genuinely phoned in when you talk about

3367
02:08:37,109 --> 02:08:34,560
the sightings with multiple witnesses

3368
02:08:39,830 --> 02:08:37,119
you know again i've investigated these

3369
02:08:42,870 --> 02:08:39,840
rule of thumb not scientific but rule of

3370
02:08:45,189 --> 02:08:42,880
thumb normally when you have a lot of

3371
02:08:46,950 --> 02:08:45,199
sightings over one area seen by a lot of

3372
02:08:49,589 --> 02:08:46,960
people that they say around about the

3373
02:08:52,069 --> 02:08:49,599
same time it usually tends to have a

3374
02:08:54,470 --> 02:08:52,079
natural explanation even if you can't

3375
02:08:56,470 --> 02:08:54,480
find it it tends to have one airplane

3376
02:08:58,229 --> 02:08:56,480
and so on i'm not saying that's the case

3377
02:09:00,870 --> 02:08:58,239
in in the one you were talking about but

3378
02:09:02,870 --> 02:09:00,880
that's just my experience even my own

3379
02:09:04,790 --> 02:09:02,880
one of my own ufo sightings was seen by

3380
02:09:06,310 --> 02:09:04,800
a lot of people i can't find an

3381
02:09:08,790 --> 02:09:06,320
explanation for it but i think there is

3382
02:09:11,109 --> 02:09:08,800
one there so going back to bankwaters

3383
02:09:12,229 --> 02:09:11,119
it's not as clear-cut as as you would

3384
02:09:13,910 --> 02:09:12,239
imagine

3385
02:09:16,229 --> 02:09:13,920
and it's not as clear-cut as it should

3386
02:09:18,229 --> 02:09:16,239
be i'm afraid i'm not a specialist in it

3387
02:09:20,310 --> 02:09:18,239
i don't know huge amounts about it

3388
02:09:21,830 --> 02:09:20,320
there's a new book come out as well and

3389
02:09:24,629 --> 02:09:21,840
it's called the halt

3390
02:09:27,189 --> 02:09:24,639
perspective it's actually co-authored by

3391
02:09:30,229 --> 02:09:27,199
former police detective here in the uk

3392
02:09:32,550 --> 02:09:30,239
called john hanson and colonel halt who

3393
02:09:34,629 --> 02:09:32,560
was the deputy base commander at ben was

3394
02:09:37,589 --> 02:09:34,639
at the time elm was witness to some of

3395
02:09:41,270 --> 02:09:37,599
these events and it is a huge great term

3396
02:09:44,069 --> 02:09:41,280
it is nearly 800 pages long wow it's a

3397
02:09:46,709 --> 02:09:44,079
fascinating read and what i would say is

3398
02:09:48,790 --> 02:09:46,719
gather the information and you know make

3399
02:09:50,470 --> 02:09:48,800
your own conclusion it's it's an

3400
02:09:52,790 --> 02:09:50,480
interesting case but it's not as

3401
02:09:53,990 --> 02:09:52,800
straightforward as you would imagine i i

3402
02:09:57,510 --> 02:09:54,000
have always thought that there were

3403
02:09:58,709 --> 02:09:57,520
elements of some sort of psychological

3404
02:10:02,709 --> 02:09:58,719
weapons

3405
02:10:05,910 --> 02:10:02,719
uh test or some sort of program to

3406
02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:05,920
gauge the response of u.s personnel

3407
02:10:10,709 --> 02:10:07,679
to an unusual event that it may have

3408
02:10:13,350 --> 02:10:10,719
been manufactured just to see

3409
02:10:16,310 --> 02:10:13,360
what kind of results would

3410
02:10:18,470 --> 02:10:16,320
would happen and it grew grew legs and

3411
02:10:20,149 --> 02:10:18,480
and started to gain a life of its own or

3412
02:10:22,069 --> 02:10:20,159
something but you know that's just my

3413
02:10:23,750 --> 02:10:22,079
kind of gut instinct about it

3414
02:10:25,910 --> 02:10:23,760
we'll have a continuation of that

3415
02:10:27,669 --> 02:10:25,920
fascinating possibility and more our

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guest is phillip mantle you're on with

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you are listening to gcn

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psychological warfare now because it

3532
02:15:17,830 --> 02:15:15,040
happened around the same time we

3533
02:15:19,750 --> 02:15:17,840
sometimes compare bent waters to cash

3534
02:15:21,990 --> 02:15:19,760
landrum in the u.s

3535
02:15:24,709 --> 02:15:22,000
we don't disrespect we know for a fact

3536
02:15:27,589 --> 02:15:24,719
that your military and our military to

3537
02:15:30,550 --> 02:15:27,599
some degree have experimented on the gis

3538
02:15:33,109 --> 02:15:30,560
in the past you know with the atomic

3539
02:15:35,270 --> 02:15:33,119
blasts with drugs whatever they have

3540
02:15:37,270 --> 02:15:35,280
experimented with them so

3541
02:15:39,830 --> 02:15:37,280
let's assume that bent waters did turn

3542
02:15:41,750 --> 02:15:39,840
out to be some kind of test that was you

3543
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:41,760
know put together by the powers that be

3544
02:15:45,750 --> 02:15:43,840
within the military it wouldn't surprise

3545
02:15:47,669 --> 02:15:45,760
you it wouldn't be as shocking as it is

3546
02:15:48,790 --> 02:15:47,679
as you might think it was i don't

3547
02:15:51,430 --> 02:15:48,800
necessarily think that is the

3548
02:15:53,109 --> 02:15:51,440
explanation but it wouldn't surprise you

3549
02:15:55,109 --> 02:15:53,119
if it was however

3550
02:15:56,870 --> 02:15:55,119
our own government's done similar things

3551
02:15:59,430 --> 02:15:56,880
with you know certainly the atomic bomb

3552
02:16:00,550 --> 02:15:59,440
testing that put you know people in

3553
02:16:05,350 --> 02:16:00,560
in in

3554
02:16:06,709 --> 02:16:05,360
purpose so again it wouldn't surprise me

3555
02:16:08,950 --> 02:16:06,719
it really wouldn't so it's not as

3556
02:16:11,589 --> 02:16:08,960
far-fetched as we would imagine however

3557
02:16:14,069 --> 02:16:11,599
to go right back to the beginning

3558
02:16:17,510 --> 02:16:14,079
you know and look at the initial

3559
02:16:19,750 --> 02:16:17,520
accounts it was just of strange lights

3560
02:16:21,910 --> 02:16:19,760
could we again be looking at a an

3561
02:16:22,950 --> 02:16:21,920
exceptional manifestation of these

3562
02:16:24,069 --> 02:16:22,960
lights

3563
02:16:26,390 --> 02:16:24,079
whereby

3564
02:16:28,550 --> 02:16:26,400
those that were involved had some kind

3565
02:16:30,550 --> 02:16:28,560
of experience i'll give you an example

3566
02:16:33,669 --> 02:16:30,560
of what i'm talking about the two main

3567
02:16:36,389 --> 02:16:33,679
witnesses on the first night's events

3568
02:16:38,389 --> 02:16:36,399
was jim penniston and john burroughs

3569
02:16:39,669 --> 02:16:38,399
united states air force

3570
02:16:42,150 --> 02:16:39,679
they were the guys that went into the

3571
02:16:45,110 --> 02:16:42,160
forest they were the guys that came up

3572
02:16:47,030 --> 02:16:45,120
close and personal to this object

3573
02:16:48,150 --> 02:16:47,040
they were all only standing a few yards

3574
02:16:49,589 --> 02:16:48,160
apart

3575
02:16:51,190 --> 02:16:49,599
however

3576
02:16:53,830 --> 02:16:51,200
sergeant peniston

3577
02:16:55,830 --> 02:16:53,840
saw a structured object

3578
02:16:59,110 --> 02:16:55,840
roughly triangular about the size of a

3579
02:17:01,190 --> 02:16:59,120
big car these markings on the side

3580
02:17:02,790 --> 02:17:01,200
with red lights on top blue lights

3581
02:17:04,469 --> 02:17:02,800
underneath and they said he touched it

3582
02:17:06,389 --> 02:17:04,479
and he walked around it

3583
02:17:09,110 --> 02:17:06,399
his colleague just standing a few yards

3584
02:17:11,349 --> 02:17:09,120
away john burroughs only saw some funny

3585
02:17:12,309 --> 02:17:11,359
lights didn't see jim walk around

3586
02:17:13,349 --> 02:17:12,319
anything

3587
02:17:16,150 --> 02:17:13,359
how come

3588
02:17:18,150 --> 02:17:16,160
you know two guys have

3589
02:17:20,790 --> 02:17:18,160
i mean they didn't just make a few

3590
02:17:23,910 --> 02:17:20,800
discrepancies they saw reported

3591
02:17:25,509 --> 02:17:23,920
something entirely different there's a

3592
02:17:28,150 --> 02:17:25,519
big difference between a structured

3593
02:17:30,230 --> 02:17:28,160
craft and a few lights so

3594
02:17:31,669 --> 02:17:30,240
what happened here if we go back to the

3595
02:17:33,509 --> 02:17:31,679
explanation we're talking about

3596
02:17:36,309 --> 02:17:33,519
previously about electromagnetic

3597
02:17:37,830 --> 02:17:36,319
influences could that explain it

3598
02:17:39,349 --> 02:17:37,840
could it explain all the lights that

3599
02:17:41,990 --> 02:17:39,359
were seen on

3600
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:42,000
the following nights by colonel hall and

3601
02:17:46,309 --> 02:17:44,240
his crew were out in the forest because

3602
02:17:47,509 --> 02:17:46,319
they don't talk about such objects that

3603
02:17:48,790 --> 02:17:47,519
doesn't talk about this thing that look

3604
02:17:49,509 --> 02:17:48,800
like an eye

3605
02:17:51,830 --> 02:17:49,519
with

3606
02:17:53,669 --> 02:17:51,840
metal dropping off it sending lights

3607
02:17:56,549 --> 02:17:53,679
down to the ground

3608
02:17:59,190 --> 02:17:56,559
so i don't know but it's a question that

3609
02:18:01,509 --> 02:17:59,200
i can't get answered why the two men

3610
02:18:03,429 --> 02:18:01,519
standing a few yards apart

3611
02:18:05,509 --> 02:18:03,439
during this event and then i'll go on

3612
02:18:07,030 --> 02:18:05,519
record they're not lying and anything

3613
02:18:08,070 --> 02:18:07,040
like that they had a

3614
02:18:10,230 --> 02:18:08,080
genuine

3615
02:18:12,469 --> 02:18:10,240
anomalous experience but how come they

3616
02:18:14,070 --> 02:18:12,479
reported something totally different you

3617
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:14,080
tell me generally

3618
02:18:19,030 --> 02:18:16,719
good question

3619
02:18:20,389 --> 02:18:19,040
i can't i can't explain that either uh

3620
02:18:23,429 --> 02:18:20,399
you know again

3621
02:18:24,389 --> 02:18:23,439
obviously you know well i mean you could

3622
02:18:26,469 --> 02:18:24,399
start to

3623
02:18:29,830 --> 02:18:26,479
kind of come up with some ideas maybe

3624
02:18:30,870 --> 02:18:29,840
one person was um in a had a better

3625
02:18:32,549 --> 02:18:30,880
angle

3626
02:18:35,270 --> 02:18:32,559
at the object than the other person

3627
02:18:37,110 --> 02:18:35,280
maybe there were shadows that obscured

3628
02:18:38,709 --> 02:18:37,120
details maybe the lights were shining in

3629
02:18:40,150 --> 02:18:38,719
the eyes of one witness and he was

3630
02:18:42,309 --> 02:18:40,160
unable to see detail and the other

3631
02:18:45,509 --> 02:18:42,319
witness because lights weren't shining

3632
02:18:48,070 --> 02:18:45,519
in his eyes uh was able to see

3633
02:18:49,830 --> 02:18:48,080
an actual uh form

3634
02:18:52,389 --> 02:18:49,840
you you'd really have to look at the

3635
02:18:55,110 --> 02:18:52,399
site and and um

3636
02:18:57,509 --> 02:18:55,120
and hypothesize based on lines of sight

3637
02:18:59,270 --> 02:18:57,519
and in perspective visually to the

3638
02:19:01,110 --> 02:18:59,280
object so you know there are some

3639
02:19:01,910 --> 02:19:01,120
possibilities that might explain that

3640
02:19:04,629 --> 02:19:01,920
but

3641
02:19:07,669 --> 02:19:04,639
you know the

3642
02:19:09,830 --> 02:19:07,679
the fact that it comes just within a day

3643
02:19:11,750 --> 02:19:09,840
or two of the cash landrum case or you

3644
02:19:13,429 --> 02:19:11,760
know within a week i think

3645
02:19:14,549 --> 02:19:13,439
how many days apart were they gene i

3646
02:19:16,230 --> 02:19:14,559
think

3647
02:19:17,589 --> 02:19:16,240
exactly the same time

3648
02:19:19,349 --> 02:19:17,599
yeah yeah it was the same it was the

3649
02:19:21,429 --> 02:19:19,359
same week i remember

3650
02:19:24,070 --> 02:19:21,439
but uh the very fact that one should

3651
02:19:26,230 --> 02:19:24,080
have uh you know

3652
02:19:27,669 --> 02:19:26,240
i don't know uh

3653
02:19:29,830 --> 02:19:27,679
it's very difficult to look at cash

3654
02:19:31,750 --> 02:19:29,840
landrum um and

3655
02:19:34,790 --> 02:19:31,760
and figure out why they reported so many

3656
02:19:36,870 --> 02:19:34,800
helicopters uh the things appeared to be

3657
02:19:39,349 --> 02:19:36,880
in trouble and and appeared to be

3658
02:19:40,790 --> 02:19:39,359
emitting some sort of radiation

3659
02:19:42,950 --> 02:19:40,800
uh the stretch of the road that it

3660
02:19:45,669 --> 02:19:42,960
hovered over was quickly uh

3661
02:19:48,070 --> 02:19:45,679
excavated and the area was repaved the

3662
02:19:50,870 --> 02:19:48,080
trees were affected around the area

3663
02:19:52,309 --> 02:19:50,880
where the object was allegedly spotted

3664
02:19:55,030 --> 02:19:52,319
and and

3665
02:19:57,510 --> 02:19:55,040
they you know

3666
02:19:58,469 --> 02:19:57,520
betty cash and vicki landrum uh to

3667
02:20:00,630 --> 02:19:58,479
varying

3668
02:20:02,230 --> 02:20:00,640
degrees suffered

3669
02:20:03,429 --> 02:20:02,240
what appeared to be to their to

3670
02:20:08,150 --> 02:20:03,439
physicians

3671
02:20:09,830 --> 02:20:08,160
some sort of radiation poisoning and and

3672
02:20:11,110 --> 02:20:09,840
so when you start adding up all those

3673
02:20:12,790 --> 02:20:11,120
facts

3674
02:20:16,070 --> 02:20:12,800
it could have been something uh a

3675
02:20:17,030 --> 02:20:16,080
man-made uh that was having problems of

3676
02:20:18,469 --> 02:20:17,040
course

3677
02:20:20,309 --> 02:20:18,479
the skeptic would would say well why

3678
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:20,319
would they trot it out over an area like

3679
02:20:24,070 --> 02:20:21,600
that why wouldn't they do it at white

3680
02:20:25,830 --> 02:20:24,080
sands or area 51 or something and that's

3681
02:20:27,190 --> 02:20:25,840
that's that's a legitimate and good

3682
02:20:28,630 --> 02:20:27,200
question but

3683
02:20:30,230 --> 02:20:28,640
to have something

3684
02:20:32,469 --> 02:20:30,240
happen

3685
02:20:34,630 --> 02:20:32,479
in close proximity to witnesses uh it's

3686
02:20:36,070 --> 02:20:34,640
with such a short time

3687
02:20:37,990 --> 02:20:36,080
uh frame

3688
02:20:39,270 --> 02:20:38,000
uh you know

3689
02:20:40,870 --> 02:20:39,280
to me

3690
02:20:43,270 --> 02:20:40,880
it's hard not to link the events in my

3691
02:20:44,710 --> 02:20:43,280
mind so for some reason well let me just

3692
02:20:47,110 --> 02:20:44,720
tell you something chris i did a little

3693
02:20:49,750 --> 02:20:47,120
quick research instant research

3694
02:20:53,510 --> 02:20:49,760
the original light scene

3695
02:20:56,389 --> 02:20:53,520
at ventwaters occurred on december 26th

3696
02:20:58,630 --> 02:20:56,399
and so we have events through the 28th

3697
02:20:59,750 --> 02:20:58,640
the cash landrum case occurred on

3698
02:21:01,510 --> 02:20:59,760
december

3699
02:21:02,790 --> 02:21:01,520
29th

3700
02:21:07,270 --> 02:21:02,800
right

3701
02:21:08,790 --> 02:21:07,280
maybe they tried uh something in one

3702
02:21:10,469 --> 02:21:08,800
spot and then they said well let's let's

3703
02:21:11,429 --> 02:21:10,479
trot it out and see what civilians would

3704
02:21:13,349 --> 02:21:11,439
think

3705
02:21:14,389 --> 02:21:13,359
uh and then maybe they had problems with

3706
02:21:16,950 --> 02:21:14,399
the uh

3707
02:21:19,030 --> 02:21:16,960
the you know the the american case you

3708
02:21:21,030 --> 02:21:19,040
don't know i'm just i'm just

3709
02:21:22,469 --> 02:21:21,040
you know putting a bunch of what-ifs out

3710
02:21:24,790 --> 02:21:22,479
there really

3711
02:21:26,950 --> 02:21:24,800
i really have never bothered to really

3712
02:21:28,950 --> 02:21:26,960
get too involved in in either of the

3713
02:21:30,710 --> 02:21:28,960
cases i've read some books and

3714
02:21:32,070 --> 02:21:30,720
and seen some interviews and that sort

3715
02:21:33,750 --> 02:21:32,080
of thing and i have a you know kind of a

3716
02:21:35,030 --> 02:21:33,760
peripheral interest in i don't think we

3717
02:21:36,230 --> 02:21:35,040
have enough information to really

3718
02:21:37,910 --> 02:21:36,240
determine

3719
02:21:39,590 --> 02:21:37,920
to make as

3720
02:21:42,469 --> 02:21:39,600
greer's meeting planner would like a

3721
02:21:44,070 --> 02:21:42,479
robust hypothesis but for some reason i

3722
02:21:47,030 --> 02:21:44,080
just get a sense that there's military

3723
02:21:48,550 --> 02:21:47,040
involvement here uh as

3724
02:21:49,590 --> 02:21:48,560
somehow being

3725
02:21:51,510 --> 02:21:49,600
involved

3726
02:21:53,670 --> 02:21:51,520
in the perpetration side of these these

3727
02:21:55,349 --> 02:21:53,680
events it's just hard for me not to uh

3728
02:21:57,830 --> 02:21:55,359
to make that leap but

3729
02:21:59,670 --> 02:21:57,840
but anyway let's move on uh bent waters

3730
02:22:01,190 --> 02:21:59,680
is a case that we've covered extensively

3731
02:22:03,429 --> 02:22:01,200
we've had both jim

3732
02:22:04,950 --> 02:22:03,439
and john on the show a number of times

3733
02:22:07,429 --> 02:22:04,960
we've had nick pope talk about it we've

3734
02:22:10,309 --> 02:22:07,439
had charles halt on the show and uh

3735
02:22:12,150 --> 02:22:10,319
again i think i think uh the deputy base

3736
02:22:13,190 --> 02:22:12,160
commander's book be a very interesting

3737
02:22:14,790 --> 02:22:13,200
read and

3738
02:22:16,630 --> 02:22:14,800
at some point i think i'll probably end

3739
02:22:17,910 --> 02:22:16,640
up doing that but

3740
02:22:20,710 --> 02:22:17,920
let's let's move on to some other

3741
02:22:22,870 --> 02:22:20,720
subjects while we have some time um

3742
02:22:25,750 --> 02:22:22,880
you know the uk is very very famous now

3743
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:25,760
for um these wonderful serial glyphs

3744
02:22:29,750 --> 02:22:27,280
crop circles

3745
02:22:31,510 --> 02:22:29,760
and uh there's been quite a bit of

3746
02:22:32,550 --> 02:22:31,520
controversy over the years about what

3747
02:22:35,190 --> 02:22:32,560
they are

3748
02:22:36,950 --> 02:22:35,200
how they're being made we've had matthew

3749
02:22:38,630 --> 02:22:36,960
williams on the show we've had mark

3750
02:22:40,309 --> 02:22:38,640
bilkinton on the show

3751
02:22:42,550 --> 02:22:40,319
uh sort of explaining the hoax of

3752
02:22:44,870 --> 02:22:42,560
skeptical side we've had uh true

3753
02:22:46,309 --> 02:22:44,880
believers on the show that claim that

3754
02:22:48,150 --> 02:22:46,319
you know there's transformative

3755
02:22:51,030 --> 02:22:48,160
experiences that have been

3756
02:22:53,030 --> 02:22:51,040
documented by you know clearing your

3757
02:22:54,790 --> 02:22:53,040
mind and meditating in these circles

3758
02:22:56,870 --> 02:22:54,800
we've had uh

3759
02:23:00,389 --> 02:22:56,880
nancy talbot claim that there's

3760
02:23:02,150 --> 02:23:00,399
geophysical uh changes in the plants or

3761
02:23:05,030 --> 02:23:02,160
there's physical changes biological

3762
02:23:06,630 --> 02:23:05,040
changes in the plants uh

3763
02:23:07,910 --> 02:23:06,640
you know we've had both sides of the

3764
02:23:09,830 --> 02:23:07,920
argument on

3765
02:23:13,349 --> 02:23:09,840
the program as someone who's there in

3766
02:23:15,110 --> 02:23:13,359
the uk and has probably studied this to

3767
02:23:16,550 --> 02:23:15,120
one degree or another

3768
02:23:19,670 --> 02:23:16,560
where do you come down on the crop

3769
02:23:20,630 --> 02:23:19,680
circle phenomenon i've got no doubt that

3770
02:23:22,790 --> 02:23:20,640
most

3771
02:23:24,790 --> 02:23:22,800
if not all are fake

3772
02:23:26,550 --> 02:23:24,800
as simple as that i know the gentleman

3773
02:23:29,030 --> 02:23:26,560
you're talking about who've made some of

3774
02:23:30,389 --> 02:23:29,040
the circles they're not by only means

3775
02:23:32,469 --> 02:23:30,399
the only ones

3776
02:23:34,230 --> 02:23:32,479
um but uh you know i've been studying

3777
02:23:36,070 --> 02:23:34,240
these um

3778
02:23:37,590 --> 02:23:36,080
crop circles for one of a better word

3779
02:23:39,110 --> 02:23:37,600
and and

3780
02:23:40,630 --> 02:23:39,120
you know

3781
02:23:42,150 --> 02:23:40,640
i just think they're fake i mean they

3782
02:23:44,070 --> 02:23:42,160
don't make any sense

3783
02:23:46,550 --> 02:23:44,080
no logic to them

3784
02:23:48,870 --> 02:23:46,560
i'll give you an example um

3785
02:23:51,750 --> 02:23:48,880
there was some crop circles that were

3786
02:23:53,030 --> 02:23:51,760
made uh near leicester in the midlands

3787
02:23:54,630 --> 02:23:53,040
of england

3788
02:23:57,270 --> 02:23:54,640
now i know the guys that did it what

3789
02:23:59,590 --> 02:23:57,280
they did they filmed themselves doing it

3790
02:24:00,550 --> 02:23:59,600
and then kept quiet about it didn't say

3791
02:24:02,389 --> 02:24:00,560
anything

3792
02:24:04,550 --> 02:24:02,399
of course a couple of days later

3793
02:24:07,349 --> 02:24:04,560
somebody driving by or whatever stumbles

3794
02:24:09,590 --> 02:24:07,359
across them hits the newspaper the local

3795
02:24:11,670 --> 02:24:09,600
crop circle expert is brought in he's

3796
02:24:13,270 --> 02:24:11,680
making all these wonderful stories up

3797
02:24:14,550 --> 02:24:13,280
and then they come forward and say sorry

3798
02:24:16,309 --> 02:24:14,560
guys

3799
02:24:18,150 --> 02:24:16,319
it was us oh it can't have been these

3800
02:24:20,070 --> 02:24:18,160
captains are made well you might just

3801
02:24:22,950 --> 02:24:20,080
have a look at this film because here is

3802
02:24:24,630 --> 02:24:22,960
us making it and you know and that's

3803
02:24:26,630 --> 02:24:24,640
you can't dispute that let's go into

3804
02:24:28,550 --> 02:24:26,640
more of this in our final segment

3805
02:24:34,230 --> 02:24:28,560
with philip mantle and gene and chris

3806
02:24:34,240 --> 02:24:39,510
[Music]

3807
02:24:44,349 --> 02:24:43,030
thank you for listening to gcn

3808
02:24:47,030 --> 02:24:44,359
be sure to visit

3809
02:24:49,429 --> 02:24:47,040
gcnlive.com today

3810
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we also have swag you know we have all

3811
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these exclusive power cast things that

3812
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you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

3813
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so different items and entails t-shirts

3814
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3815
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cases mouse pads the power cast jumbo

3816
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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

3817
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jackets and stuff like that for men and

3818
02:25:14,550 --> 02:25:12,479
women we have a power cast aluminum

3819
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water bottle all this stuff you go to

3820
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store dot the powercast.com

3821
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3822
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what makes special is that the items are

3823
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the best quality of great t-shirts

3824
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fabrics and they have our official logo

3825
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3826
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in multiple sizes and colors we even

3827
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have stuff for children stuff for women

3828
02:25:38,790 --> 02:25:36,399
stuff for men we have all sorts of sizes

3829
02:25:40,870 --> 02:25:38,800
like small up to x large a lot of good

3830
02:25:44,309 --> 02:25:40,880
stuff that's the swag from the power

3831
02:25:47,190 --> 02:25:44,319
cast you go to store.the powercast.com

3832
02:25:48,710 --> 02:25:47,200
stop by and take a shopping tour

3833
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:48,720
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

3834
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money you can't pay are tax debts

3835
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crippling you i've defended people from

3836
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the irs for over 30 years i've helped

3837
02:25:58,309 --> 02:25:56,880
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

3838
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the book on irs settlement and i'm

3839
02:26:03,670 --> 02:26:00,000
telling you there's no such thing as a

3840
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hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

3841
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3842
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programs there's never been a better

3843
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time to solve your problem call 834 no

3844
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tax that's 800 34 no tax on my website

3845
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3846
02:26:20,750 --> 02:26:18,560
if you or someone you care about loves

3847
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3848
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slingbow.com for some unique holiday

3849
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3850
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3851
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slingbow.com where we have some

3852
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innovative new products for the archer

3853
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3854
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3855
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3856
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3857
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3858
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in these uncertain times it makes sense

3859
02:26:54,150 --> 02:26:52,319
to have a sustainable backup method to

3860
02:26:56,389 --> 02:26:54,160
cook food and boil water if your current

3861
02:26:58,070 --> 02:26:56,399
plan includes using a fuel burning stove

3862
02:27:00,070 --> 02:26:58,080
or cooking over an open fire then

3863
02:27:01,910 --> 02:27:00,080
there's a much better way the minuteman

3864
02:27:03,990 --> 02:27:01,920
rocket stove is a biomass burning

3865
02:27:05,990 --> 02:27:04,000
cooking stove that only requires small

3866
02:27:07,750 --> 02:27:06,000
quantities of sticks and twigs for fuel

3867
02:27:09,429 --> 02:27:07,760
the minuteman stove is easy to use

3868
02:27:11,349 --> 02:27:09,439
smokeless portable powerful and

3869
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sustainable for the finest and survival

3870
02:27:14,870 --> 02:27:13,280
cooking stoves and fire starters made

3871
02:27:17,070 --> 02:27:14,880
right here in the usa go to

3872
02:27:19,510 --> 02:27:17,080
minutemanstove.com that's

3873
02:27:21,510 --> 02:27:19,520
minutemanstove.com hi my name is stephen

3874
02:27:23,270 --> 02:27:21,520
holstein in my twenties i abused

3875
02:27:25,030 --> 02:27:23,280
stimulants and anabolic steroids to the

3876
02:27:26,790 --> 02:27:25,040
point where my adrenal glands were shot

3877
02:27:28,790 --> 02:27:26,800
i suffered from extreme fatigue and an

3878
02:27:30,230 --> 02:27:28,800
inability to handle stress for over six

3879
02:27:32,710 --> 02:27:30,240
years i have been taking adrenal

3880
02:27:35,190 --> 02:27:32,720
supplements including herbs glandulars

3881
02:27:37,190 --> 02:27:35,200
vitamin c and vitamin b5 all these

3882
02:27:39,110 --> 02:27:37,200
supplements did was treat the symptoms

3883
02:27:41,349 --> 02:27:39,120
and produce only minimal results now

3884
02:27:44,309 --> 02:27:41,359
just after one month on synergy one and

3885
02:27:46,630 --> 02:27:44,319
adr medics i truly feel rejuvenated i

3886
02:27:48,550 --> 02:27:46,640
have never felt such relaxation before

3887
02:27:50,950 --> 02:27:48,560
from any adrenal supplement as i did

3888
02:27:53,190 --> 02:27:50,960
just 10 minutes after taking adr medics

3889
02:27:55,510 --> 02:27:53,200
i then noticed synergy one made me wake

3890
02:27:57,750 --> 02:27:55,520
up rested and with much more energy no

3891
02:27:59,750 --> 02:27:57,760
more hungover groggy feeling upon

3892
02:28:01,670 --> 02:27:59,760
arising i had almost considered going to

3893
02:28:03,990 --> 02:28:01,680
another country for stem cell therapy as

3894
02:28:06,309 --> 02:28:04,000
a last resort but now i truly feel

3895
02:28:08,550 --> 02:28:06,319
rejuvenated on synergy one and adr

3896
02:28:10,830 --> 02:28:08,560
medics success happens with synergistic

3897
02:28:12,990 --> 02:28:10,840
nutrition call

3898
02:28:16,230 --> 02:28:13,000
888-988-3325 or visit

3899
02:28:18,550 --> 02:28:16,240
oneworldway.com that's one world w-h-e-y

3900
02:28:20,710 --> 02:28:18,560
dot com

3901
02:28:21,990 --> 02:28:20,720
don't know what contaminants are lurking

3902
02:28:24,790 --> 02:28:22,000
in your water

3903
02:28:27,910 --> 02:28:24,800
time to get a pro-pure take advantage of

3904
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3905
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3906
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3907
02:28:38,469 --> 02:28:36,479
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3908
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3909
02:28:43,790 --> 02:28:42,560
details or propureusa.com

3910
02:28:52,630 --> 02:28:43,800
that's

3911
02:28:57,190 --> 02:28:55,190
this is jerome clark author of ufo

3912
02:28:59,680 --> 02:28:57,200
encyclopedia in other books you're

3913
02:29:10,230 --> 02:28:59,690
listening to the peercast

3914
02:29:14,230 --> 02:29:12,070
so we know about the people who make the

3915
02:29:17,270 --> 02:29:14,240
fake crop circles philip mantle do you

3916
02:29:20,150 --> 02:29:17,280
think there are any genuine paranormal

3917
02:29:22,150 --> 02:29:20,160
events among any of these cases i think

3918
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:22,160
there are some crop circles that may be

3919
02:29:25,910 --> 02:29:23,280
authentic

3920
02:29:29,590 --> 02:29:25,920
a chap called paul fuller who was a

3921
02:29:31,910 --> 02:29:29,600
statistician by profession he um sent a

3922
02:29:34,070 --> 02:29:31,920
questionnaire around some of the farms

3923
02:29:35,190 --> 02:29:34,080
where these circles had appeared

3924
02:29:37,030 --> 02:29:35,200
again

3925
02:29:39,349 --> 02:29:37,040
not only have they appeared in in recent

3926
02:29:42,309 --> 02:29:39,359
years they had appeared down the decades

3927
02:29:44,550 --> 02:29:42,319
so there is some circumstantial evidence

3928
02:29:47,270 --> 02:29:44,560
that the simple crop formation i'm

3929
02:29:49,910 --> 02:29:47,280
talking just the circle may well be

3930
02:29:51,990 --> 02:29:49,920
authentic because of this historical

3931
02:29:54,469 --> 02:29:52,000
evidence although we have no photographs

3932
02:29:56,870 --> 02:29:54,479
of them but anything beyond that forget

3933
02:29:58,469 --> 02:29:56,880
about it don't waste your time with them

3934
02:30:00,389 --> 02:29:58,479
the more complex they are and the more

3935
02:30:03,349 --> 02:30:00,399
beautiful they are the more likely they

3936
02:30:05,030 --> 02:30:03,359
are to be hoaxed that's my rule of thumb

3937
02:30:07,990 --> 02:30:05,040
there have been some that are head

3938
02:30:09,030 --> 02:30:08,000
scratchers okay moving on i have been

3939
02:30:12,309 --> 02:30:09,040
quite

3940
02:30:14,070 --> 02:30:12,319
taken by and uh impressed by the

3941
02:30:15,910 --> 02:30:14,080
so-called cattle mutilation phenomenon

3942
02:30:16,790 --> 02:30:15,920
as it's called here in in the united

3943
02:30:19,750 --> 02:30:16,800
states

3944
02:30:21,190 --> 02:30:19,760
i personally investigated over 200 cases

3945
02:30:22,150 --> 02:30:21,200
written the definitive book on the

3946
02:30:24,070 --> 02:30:22,160
subject

3947
02:30:26,870 --> 02:30:24,080
and feel that um there are some

3948
02:30:28,710 --> 02:30:26,880
legitimate unexplained livestock deaths

3949
02:30:30,630 --> 02:30:28,720
richard hall tony dowd there's been

3950
02:30:32,710 --> 02:30:30,640
others that have looked into this

3951
02:30:34,230 --> 02:30:32,720
phenomenon there in the uk

3952
02:30:35,429 --> 02:30:34,240
uh what are your feelings on that do you

3953
02:30:36,309 --> 02:30:35,439
think there's something legitimate here

3954
02:30:38,550 --> 02:30:36,319
do you think

3955
02:30:40,630 --> 02:30:38,560
that that hundreds of sheep for instance

3956
02:30:42,309 --> 02:30:40,640
were mutilated around the uh beginning

3957
02:30:43,990 --> 02:30:42,319
of the reign of james the first which is

3958
02:30:46,630 --> 02:30:44,000
the earliest case that i can find the

3959
02:30:48,230 --> 02:30:46,640
earliest documented example where do you

3960
02:30:49,910 --> 02:30:48,240
come down on that it's not something

3961
02:30:50,710 --> 02:30:49,920
i've ever dealt with to be honest

3962
02:30:52,870 --> 02:30:50,720
because

3963
02:30:55,670 --> 02:30:52,880
you know don't pay that much attention

3964
02:30:57,030 --> 02:30:55,680
and i i don't hold any information or

3965
02:30:58,870 --> 02:30:57,040
any opinion

3966
02:31:01,110 --> 02:30:58,880
regarding when you mention it's not

3967
02:31:02,790 --> 02:31:01,120
something i've ever looked at so i don't

3968
02:31:04,630 --> 02:31:02,800
really want to comment about something i

3969
02:31:06,710 --> 02:31:04,640
know little about you do have some

3970
02:31:07,990 --> 02:31:06,720
pretty sick horse lashes from time to

3971
02:31:09,750 --> 02:31:08,000
time in england

3972
02:31:11,750 --> 02:31:09,760
that have their way sexually and

3973
02:31:14,070 --> 02:31:11,760
otherwise with horses i have

3974
02:31:15,830 --> 02:31:14,080
had a number of outbreaks of cases like

3975
02:31:17,590 --> 02:31:15,840
that and there have been one or two in

3976
02:31:19,750 --> 02:31:17,600
the united states but you tend to hear

3977
02:31:22,230 --> 02:31:19,760
about the ones in england uh because of

3978
02:31:23,110 --> 02:31:22,240
uh the proximity of people to uh cases

3979
02:31:24,630 --> 02:31:23,120
uh

3980
02:31:26,389 --> 02:31:24,640
we do have some pretty twisted

3981
02:31:28,550 --> 02:31:26,399
individuals on the planet no question

3982
02:31:30,710 --> 02:31:28,560
about it some of them were twisted than

3983
02:31:32,550 --> 02:31:30,720
others i just figured i'd bounce that

3984
02:31:35,110 --> 02:31:32,560
one off here because we uh we had

3985
02:31:37,910 --> 02:31:35,120
phillip hoyle on on the show who

3986
02:31:41,670 --> 02:31:37,920
is part of a or used to be part of the

3987
02:31:43,830 --> 02:31:41,680
animal pathology unit up there

3988
02:31:45,590 --> 02:31:43,840
sort of on the welsh border and he had

3989
02:31:47,510 --> 02:31:45,600
some very very compelling cases that

3990
02:31:49,110 --> 02:31:47,520
cannot be explained away

3991
02:31:50,790 --> 02:31:49,120
where there are no predators and very

3992
02:31:52,870 --> 02:31:50,800
few large scavengers

3993
02:31:54,630 --> 02:31:52,880
if any i just thought i'd bounce that

3994
02:31:56,469 --> 02:31:54,640
off you where are we going now i

3995
02:31:57,750 --> 02:31:56,479
mentioned uh we should end up with uh

3996
02:31:59,910 --> 02:31:57,760
you know where do you think this field

3997
02:32:02,389 --> 02:31:59,920
is going and what can we do to keep it

3998
02:32:04,550 --> 02:32:02,399
alive or does it need to be kept alive i

3999
02:32:06,870 --> 02:32:04,560
personally i i think he's you know we

4000
02:32:08,630 --> 02:32:06,880
should be kept alive

4001
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:08,640
you know i've got down the years i've

4002
02:32:13,030 --> 02:32:10,640
had a few of the questions i answered

4003
02:32:14,790 --> 02:32:13,040
but by no means all of them

4004
02:32:16,870 --> 02:32:14,800
and i you know i look at my whatever you

4005
02:32:18,630 --> 02:32:16,880
want to call it my contribution as a way

4006
02:32:20,070 --> 02:32:18,640
of recording this data and hopefully

4007
02:32:22,790 --> 02:32:20,080
that at some point somebody will make

4008
02:32:24,950 --> 02:32:22,800
sense of it all which has happened in

4009
02:32:27,110 --> 02:32:24,960
other areas of science down the years

4010
02:32:29,429 --> 02:32:27,120
for you know astronomy being a prime

4011
02:32:31,750 --> 02:32:29,439
example you know it was mostly studied

4012
02:32:33,510 --> 02:32:31,760
by amateurs there was no professionals

4013
02:32:35,270 --> 02:32:33,520
and the more we documented it the more

4014
02:32:37,030 --> 02:32:35,280
we studied it the more we found out that

4015
02:32:39,349 --> 02:32:37,040
you know we weren't the center of the

4016
02:32:41,110 --> 02:32:39,359
universe so i think it's important i

4017
02:32:42,389 --> 02:32:41,120
think i think it's also important

4018
02:32:45,110 --> 02:32:42,399
gentlemen to

4019
02:32:47,429 --> 02:32:45,120
share the material share the information

4020
02:32:49,670 --> 02:32:47,439
with whoever wants it for whatever

4021
02:32:51,590 --> 02:32:49,680
reason a particular incident that you

4022
02:32:53,349 --> 02:32:51,600
investigate or whatever maybe the

4023
02:32:55,110 --> 02:32:53,359
missing piece of the puzzle but if you

4024
02:32:56,870 --> 02:32:55,120
don't share it with anyone we're never

4025
02:32:59,830 --> 02:32:56,880
going to find out yeah it's something

4026
02:33:01,590 --> 02:32:59,840
i've always done yeah me too my entire

4027
02:33:03,030 --> 02:33:01,600
database has always been publicly

4028
02:33:04,870 --> 02:33:03,040
accessible

4029
02:33:06,790 --> 02:33:04,880
i have one of the largest databases from

4030
02:33:08,550 --> 02:33:06,800
a single geographic region

4031
02:33:10,230 --> 02:33:08,560
anybody who's interested enough to want

4032
02:33:12,469 --> 02:33:10,240
to even look at the information i'm

4033
02:33:13,429 --> 02:33:12,479
flattered well yeah exactly and of

4034
02:33:15,750 --> 02:33:13,439
course

4035
02:33:17,349 --> 02:33:15,760
now with modern technology you know the

4036
02:33:19,190 --> 02:33:17,359
language barriers are falling down

4037
02:33:20,870 --> 02:33:19,200
around the world we can speak to

4038
02:33:23,270 --> 02:33:20,880
somebody on the other side of the world

4039
02:33:25,030 --> 02:33:23,280
free of charge one of these little you

4040
02:33:26,950 --> 02:33:25,040
know little box in front of me they can

4041
02:33:29,030 --> 02:33:26,960
send us information that might be in a

4042
02:33:30,870 --> 02:33:29,040
different language but we can figure it

4043
02:33:32,950 --> 02:33:30,880
out now we can use technology to figure

4044
02:33:34,469 --> 02:33:32,960
that out and i think we should do more

4045
02:33:35,830 --> 02:33:34,479
of that we should do more of the sharing

4046
02:33:38,150 --> 02:33:35,840
there are still those who look on

4047
02:33:40,150 --> 02:33:38,160
ufology as like stamp collecting you

4048
02:33:41,670 --> 02:33:40,160
know i've got this and you haven't you

4049
02:33:44,230 --> 02:33:41,680
know i'm afraid i've called away don't

4050
02:33:45,510 --> 02:33:44,240
bother me you know so to share the

4051
02:33:47,590 --> 02:33:45,520
information

4052
02:33:50,150 --> 02:33:47,600
is imperative i think for any future of

4053
02:33:52,309 --> 02:33:50,160
this subject and that you know something

4054
02:33:54,469 --> 02:33:52,319
i i think we should do more of

4055
02:33:55,990 --> 02:33:54,479
how we do it you know there's all the

4056
02:33:58,070 --> 02:33:56,000
technology in the world to do it now

4057
02:34:00,070 --> 02:33:58,080
orders the old-fashioned way stick it in

4058
02:34:02,309 --> 02:34:00,080
a book or magazine

4059
02:34:04,790 --> 02:34:02,319
or put it online whatever whatever way

4060
02:34:06,389 --> 02:34:04,800
we can and uh let's see where the data

4061
02:34:07,270 --> 02:34:06,399
leads us not and not the other way

4062
02:34:09,270 --> 02:34:07,280
around

4063
02:34:11,270 --> 02:34:09,280
do you think the focus on the part of

4064
02:34:14,309 --> 02:34:11,280
some researchers and some

4065
02:34:16,870 --> 02:34:14,319
ufo organizations strictly on alien

4066
02:34:18,630 --> 02:34:16,880
visitors and nothing else and no related

4067
02:34:21,670 --> 02:34:18,640
studies do you think that kind of

4068
02:34:24,230 --> 02:34:21,680
constrains them and maybe also

4069
02:34:26,230 --> 02:34:24,240
hampers getting to a solution

4070
02:34:28,230 --> 02:34:26,240
yeah absolutely i think any

4071
02:34:31,670 --> 02:34:28,240
ufo organization and i'm not being a

4072
02:34:33,830 --> 02:34:31,680
member of a few has rules and regulation

4073
02:34:35,910 --> 02:34:33,840
and constrains you some of those things

4074
02:34:37,190 --> 02:34:35,920
aren't bad you know because they'll tell

4075
02:34:38,469 --> 02:34:37,200
you like when you go and speak to a

4076
02:34:39,830 --> 02:34:38,479
witness don't put words in the mouth

4077
02:34:41,910 --> 02:34:39,840
people like you know book your

4078
02:34:44,469 --> 02:34:41,920
appointment to go see them or whatever i

4079
02:34:46,469 --> 02:34:44,479
would never ever join a ufo group ever

4080
02:34:49,030 --> 02:34:46,479
again i've been asked and politely

4081
02:34:51,190 --> 02:34:49,040
declined because they do come straight

4082
02:34:53,830 --> 02:34:51,200
they really do hold you back the

4083
02:34:55,270 --> 02:34:53,840
evidence is there for everybody if you

4084
02:34:57,910 --> 02:34:55,280
want to get involved in this subject

4085
02:35:00,550 --> 02:34:57,920
there's nothing to stop you and you can

4086
02:35:02,870 --> 02:35:00,560
do as much or as little as you want i've

4087
02:35:04,630 --> 02:35:02,880
been happy a long time and and i'm still

4088
02:35:07,110 --> 02:35:04,640
at it so i would say don't bother

4089
02:35:09,990 --> 02:35:07,120
joining a ufo group it's for me it's

4090
02:35:11,670 --> 02:35:10,000
really not worth it you don't have to to

4091
02:35:12,630 --> 02:35:11,680
understand or try and understand this

4092
02:35:14,550 --> 02:35:12,640
very

4093
02:35:16,550 --> 02:35:14,560
fascinating and perfecting phenomena

4094
02:35:18,710 --> 02:35:16,560
that we call ufos

4095
02:35:21,190 --> 02:35:18,720
it reminds me of the old phrase i'll

4096
02:35:22,550 --> 02:35:21,200
never join a club that would have me

4097
02:35:23,990 --> 02:35:22,560
as a member

4098
02:35:25,990 --> 02:35:24,000
yeah groucho

4099
02:35:28,309 --> 02:35:26,000
right right you see i talk about all

4100
02:35:30,230 --> 02:35:28,319
these old things and long gone people

4101
02:35:32,230 --> 02:35:30,240
and things like that for the next minute

4102
02:35:34,870 --> 02:35:32,240
or two you're now a publisher a book

4103
02:35:36,870 --> 02:35:34,880
publisher philip mantle tell us quickly

4104
02:35:39,110 --> 02:35:36,880
about what you've got to offer and how

4105
02:35:40,870 --> 02:35:39,120
we can learn more about it yeah i mean i

4106
02:35:43,750 --> 02:35:40,880
started my own little venture flying

4107
02:35:46,070 --> 02:35:43,760
disc press last year i've been an editor

4108
02:35:48,230 --> 02:35:46,080
of a number of magazines down the years

4109
02:35:49,750 --> 02:35:48,240
so i have you know i've got a contact

4110
02:35:50,790 --> 02:35:49,760
database with people all around the

4111
02:35:51,750 --> 02:35:50,800
world

4112
02:35:53,270 --> 02:35:51,760
and one of those that had written

4113
02:35:54,790 --> 02:35:53,280
followers is a chat called peter

4114
02:35:56,389 --> 02:35:54,800
cialabias

4115
02:35:58,950 --> 02:35:56,399
pictures in poland

4116
02:36:01,510 --> 02:35:58,960
he sent me a manuscript you know of ufo

4117
02:36:03,670 --> 02:36:01,520
sightings in poland not for publishing

4118
02:36:05,590 --> 02:36:03,680
just to read one of the things peter's

4119
02:36:07,910 --> 02:36:05,600
been doing is he's practicing his

4120
02:36:10,150 --> 02:36:07,920
english so i read it and i thought wow

4121
02:36:12,389 --> 02:36:10,160
this is fascinating stuff a friend of

4122
02:36:13,830 --> 02:36:12,399
mine well mentioned earlier john hanson

4123
02:36:16,070 --> 02:36:13,840
who has done the book the whole

4124
02:36:18,309 --> 02:36:16,080
perspective with colonel halt he self

4125
02:36:19,750 --> 02:36:18,319
publishers so he explained the routine

4126
02:36:22,469 --> 02:36:19,760
to me and i thought about it and i

4127
02:36:24,070 --> 02:36:22,479
thought well why not you know i asked

4128
02:36:25,510 --> 02:36:24,080
peter if he wanted to get the book into

4129
02:36:28,870 --> 02:36:25,520
print and he was

4130
02:36:31,670 --> 02:36:28,880
over the moon so i did it i got it done

4131
02:36:34,070 --> 02:36:31,680
it's up it's on amazon ufos over poland

4132
02:36:35,910 --> 02:36:34,080
some great remarks about it and then

4133
02:36:37,670 --> 02:36:35,920
another chap again who had written for

4134
02:36:41,190 --> 02:36:37,680
us just happened to come from eastern

4135
02:36:42,950 --> 02:36:41,200
europe a chap called dan farkas phd and

4136
02:36:45,830 --> 02:36:42,960
he sent me another book all about stuff

4137
02:36:47,590 --> 02:36:45,840
in romania which is fascinating it

4138
02:36:49,110 --> 02:36:47,600
covers a lot of the topics that we've

4139
02:36:51,910 --> 02:36:49,120
discussed on the show tonight for

4140
02:36:53,910 --> 02:36:51,920
example even his own theory on what lies

4141
02:36:57,270 --> 02:36:53,920
behind the phenomenon and he's a bona

4142
02:36:59,429 --> 02:36:57,280
fide phd so i published that ufos over

4143
02:37:01,830 --> 02:36:59,439
romania and again that's not been out

4144
02:37:03,670 --> 02:37:01,840
long get it on amazon it's not to make

4145
02:37:05,670 --> 02:37:03,680
money you know i i've had my own books

4146
02:37:07,670 --> 02:37:05,680
published and i've struggled at times so

4147
02:37:10,469 --> 02:37:07,680
i thought well this is my way of paying

4148
02:37:12,389 --> 02:37:10,479
back if i make a few dollars at it fine

4149
02:37:14,550 --> 02:37:12,399
as long as i break even i'll be happy

4150
02:37:16,469 --> 02:37:14,560
but i can sit here content knowing that

4151
02:37:18,389 --> 02:37:16,479
i've put this information into the

4152
02:37:20,070 --> 02:37:18,399
public domain if i hadn't you would

4153
02:37:22,630 --> 02:37:20,080
probably never have read it because it

4154
02:37:24,309 --> 02:37:22,640
wasn't in english before most of it was

4155
02:37:25,750 --> 02:37:24,319
very quickly if our listeners want to

4156
02:37:27,670 --> 02:37:25,760
get in touch with you do you have a site

4157
02:37:29,670 --> 02:37:27,680
they can check out just find me on

4158
02:37:31,910 --> 02:37:29,680
facebook i'm on facebook that's the best

4159
02:37:34,070 --> 02:37:31,920
way to find me it's not a problem i'll

4160
02:37:36,710 --> 02:37:34,080
answer any questions and help anybody

4161
02:37:38,950 --> 02:37:36,720
listeners you can find us on twitter

4162
02:37:41,270 --> 02:37:38,960
where we are known as the parent castle

4163
02:37:44,790 --> 02:37:41,280
for the powercast on twitter look for

4164
02:37:47,349 --> 02:37:44,800
two official powercast fan clubs on

4165
02:37:49,670 --> 02:37:47,359
facebook one's a group one's a community

4166
02:37:52,389 --> 02:37:49,680
pick the one you want or pick both we

4167
02:37:55,349 --> 02:37:52,399
also have another radio show to offer

4168
02:37:56,950 --> 02:37:55,359
it's called after the power cast and it

4169
02:37:58,630 --> 02:37:56,960
could be a continuation of the interview

4170
02:38:01,830 --> 02:37:58,640
it could be an interview with somebody

4171
02:38:04,389 --> 02:38:01,840
else it could be general chit chat it's

4172
02:38:06,070 --> 02:38:04,399
a place where you expect the unexpected

4173
02:38:08,469 --> 02:38:06,080
and the only way to hear after the power

4174
02:38:10,630 --> 02:38:08,479
cast is to become a member of the power

4175
02:38:12,230 --> 02:38:10,640
cast plus we really i guess should get

4176
02:38:13,910 --> 02:38:12,240
membership cards and things printed

4177
02:38:16,550 --> 02:38:13,920
maybe we'll do that in the meantime if

4178
02:38:19,590 --> 02:38:16,560
you want to learn more go to plus plus

4179
02:38:21,510 --> 02:38:19,600
dot the powercast.com or reverse it the

4180
02:38:24,389 --> 02:38:21,520
powercast.com

4181
02:38:27,510 --> 02:38:24,399
plus either way gets you there you could

4182
02:38:30,150 --> 02:38:27,520
subscribe for 4.99 a month we also have

4183
02:38:32,550 --> 02:38:30,160
long-term subscription plans for a year

4184
02:38:35,030 --> 02:38:32,560
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4185
02:38:38,150 --> 02:38:35,040
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4186
02:38:41,750 --> 02:38:38,160
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4187
02:38:43,910 --> 02:38:41,760
goodies are coming plus.thepowercast.com

4188
02:38:45,349 --> 02:38:43,920
philip mantle the next time you're here

4189
02:38:47,270 --> 02:38:45,359
it's not going to be another eight years

4190
02:38:49,270 --> 02:38:47,280
it's gotta be a lot quicker thank you

4191
02:39:03,990 --> 02:38:49,280
for joining us on the power cast

4192
02:39:09,750 --> 02:39:06,790
the paracast featuring jean steinberg

4193
02:39:12,710 --> 02:39:09,760
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4194
02:39:14,469 --> 02:39:12,720
presentation of making the impossible

4195
02:39:18,630 --> 02:39:14,479
incorporated